Shots fired

[JThompson]

Hello People,

I know that an RO is responsible for counting shots fired by a shooter for V-Count and the like. Is there a rule that expressly gives them the right and or duty to do so? I've been digging and I can't seem to come up with it.

Thanks

JT

[Scott R]

7.1.1 Range Officer (“RO”) – issues range commands, oversees competitor

compliance with the written stage briefing and closely monitors safe

competitor action. He also declares the time, scores and penalties

achieved by each competitor and verifies that these are correctly

recorded on the competitor’s score sheet (under the authority of a Chief

Range Officer and Range Master).

[JThompson]

Thank you Mr. Reese... I see that, but it doesn't specifically say anything about shots. I guess I like to see it spelled out... it appears gray to me where counting shots is concerned.

JT

Edited March 17, 2009 by JThompson

[sperman]

Thank you Mr. Reese... I see that, but it doesn't specifically say anything about shots. I guess I like to see it spelled out... it appears gray to me where counting shots is concerned.

JT

Maybe it takes a few steps to get there, but the stage briefing says Virginia Count. The VC rules are laid out in the rulebook, including penalties for extra shots & hits. Scott's quote above shows the RO responsible for scores and penalties.

[Flexmoney]

Has this been an issue in some real way, JT ?

[Jim Norman]

Some day our rule book will rival the NYC yellow pages. We all KNOW what our duties are. COF is VC, who else is charged with counting if not the RO and CRO? If each and every specific duty needs to be written down and spelled out it will take up half your range cart to carry the book.

If the RO is detailed to make sure the shooter follows the COF, properly and the COF is C, by definition the RO has to count shots otherwise he cannot do his job, we really don't need to write this down.

Jim

[mscott]

I'd bet that most of the time if you shoot an extra shot in a Virginia count stage one of your "buddies" behind you will make sure you get credit for it

[Gary Stevens]

If the RO did not count the shots, who would? Would a shooter be entitled to fire as many rounds as he/she wished since no one is counting?

[hf219]

Its based upon the RO creed and the USPSA rule book. Is it a question of FTE's, YES I would think that its relative that shots are counted! Virginia count of course goes without saying or at least it should. If there is a COF that may entice the competitor to bypass a target to gain an advantage (it might be worth it HF wise) or its a memory stage and the competitor reengaged a target twice and never engaged a target wich has no hits on it. FTE's in my opinion on these types of courses are hard (not impossible) to assess on the competitor unless the RO is on their game. It does get easy after running many many shooters on the same stage to know when they have engaged or not engaged enough targets. I think this is also where the score keeper comes in to play as well. So many times Ive seen the score keeper hanging out drifting off into oblivion without any regard to whats going on (more on a local level, rarely at a levl II or higher). The RO running the shooters paramount job among many things is to maintain safety with the shooter. Sometimes a COF does not afford the RO running the shooter the ability to catch all of the proceduals that may occur and thats when the score keeper should be monitoring these areas. It also helps if the RO and the score keeper work this out as to who and when what will be or should be watched for (proceduals, DQ,ect). I think thats what your getting at, as far as where it would be stated, ITS OUR JOB AS RO'S TO ENFORCE THE RULES WE ARE BOUND TO WHEN PLAYING THIS GAME! Now, not every rule is enforced or caught or acted upon or explained properly. We are of course human and we do make mistakes. We can only learn and grow from these mistakes to make us all better at playing this game of ours. Oh when I said its our job to enforce the rules no antagonistic over tone was meant, simply stated, the rules are to be enforced by the RO and RO staff assigned to that stage running that competitor, which is part of the RO creed from NROI.

Edited March 18, 2009 by hf219

[Scott R]

7.1.1 Range Officer (“RO”) – issues range commands, oversees competitor

compliance with the written stage briefing and closely monitors safe

competitor action. He also declares the time, scores and penalties

achieved by each competitor and verifies that these are correctly

recorded on the competitor’s score sheet (under the authority of a Chief

Range Officer and Range Master).

Thank you Mr. Reese... I see that, but it doesn't specifically say anything about shots. I guess I like to see it spelled out... it appears gray to me where counting shots is concerned.

JT

Nor does 7.1.1 specifically say what to watch for when it tasks the RO with monitoring safe competitor action, but there are other rules to spell that out just as there are other rules to spell out what is included in "oversees competitor

compliance with the written stage briefing". And it is within the WSB that dictates that the course of fire is scored Virginia count, and another rule(9.4.5.1) which specifically addresses the number of shots fired.

Sorry about not completing this path in my first response, but 7.1.1 tasks the RO with understanding and applying numerous other rules to the course of fire (way to many to repeat within 7.1.1).

[boz1911]

I'd bet that most of the time if you shoot an extra shot in a Virginia count stage one of your "buddies" behind you will make sure you get credit for it

That's the way it works here too...