exoninja Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I was informed that one cannot shoot with one hand, while the other hand is holding a loaded magazine. This qualifies for a DQ for safety infraction. But I can't find that rule anywhere in the rulebook. Can someone pinpoint that rule to me? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 huh????? doesn't sound right to me...one of the little skill sets from working with Matt Burkett was to while drawing and shooting stronghand..draw a mag weakhanded ready for the reload...just a skill he was saying nice to have... but if that were the case..why would we be allowed to hold anything..briefcases, etc while shooting..why would we shoot strong hand only or weak hand only.. doesn;t make sense...have the RO who told you that produce the rule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Exoninja, You're not permitted to touch or hold a magazine or your gun etc. prior to issuance of the start signal - see Rule 8.2.3. However once the start signal is given, there is no such prohibition. Moreover, I cannot imagine how merely holding a magazine after the start signal would justify a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exoninja Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 This is the scenario, I saw a shooter shoot with his right hand, while his left hand, holding a magazine, is supporting his right hand. The RO said it's a safety infraction. Take note that this is running around shooting with 1 hand, while the other hand is holding a magazine. The shooter hasn't had any intentions to reload yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 It may be a rule violation if the COF dictates SHO, but it is not a safety violation, and certainly not a DQable offence. What discipline was this? USPSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exoninja Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 It's IPSC. I did asked the RO about it, I told him that I can't find any rule in the rulebook's DQ section which says that a shooter cannot hold a mag in his hand. He said it's a safety violation, but not necessarily a DQ offence. But then again, I still can't find ANY rule at all in the rulebook which states that a shooter cannot hold a mag in his hand while shooting. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Exoninja, This by itself is under IPSC rules no justification for a DQ. However, if the safety wasn't engaged or the finger not off the trigger while moving and not engaging any targets, that would be reason for a DQ. Shooting with one hand while holding a magzine with the other hand is perfectly legal during an IPSC stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 If the safety was not engaged? Where is that listed at other than in the holster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 I did this myself today and nothing was said. Is this something that an RO was just looking for a reason to complain. I was shooting in a box and I had to move in box to get my last 2 shots. I reached down and pulled the mag to get my reload as soon as I made my last shots. The RO running us had run several state matches and said " if we were shooting the other sport that would have been at least a procedural". He did the same thing when I ran him thru it a few minutes later. I don't see the problem. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 This is the scenario, I saw a shooter shoot with his right hand, while his left hand, holding a magazine, is supporting his right hand. Agree that it's not a DQ'able offense holding a mag while shooting with the other hand. But I just had to ask. How was he supporting it, like the support you use when holding a flahslight with the weak hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 If the safety was not engaged? Where is that listed at other than in the holster? From the current IPSC rules: 8.5 Movement 8.5.1 All movement must be accomplished with the finger outside the trigger guard except if targets are visible to the shooter and the shooter maintains a sight picture on the targets with the intent of engaging them. The firearm must be pointed in a safe direction and the safety should be engaged. "Movement" is defined as any of the actions below: 8.5.1.1 Taking more than one step in any direction 8.5.1.2 Changing positions (i.e. from standing to kneeling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GvU Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Arvid, You are advised to put the safety on, this is not mandatory! Exoninja, Are you sure this was a Range Officer? Never heard this BS before. As Vince pointed out, you're not allowed to touch Gun or magazine before the startsignal (8.2.3). Actually, if noticed, I would not proceed with "standby" to start the COF, because the proper start position was not assumed. In case you touch your gun or magazine, after "standby", you get a procedural (also 8.2.3). John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Arvid,You are advised to put the safety on, this is not mandatory! Really ? I find the rules sometimes a bit confusing when the word "should" is used. Sometimes I get the distinct impression that "must" is actually meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Should is a suggestion, Shall is mandatory. It is not required to apply the safety after the start signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Hi, I know the meaning of the words "should" and "must", I was just saying that I sometimes get the feeling that "must" is meant where it reads "should". At least, that's my impression and this confuses me sometimes. But to avoid confusion for myself about having to apply the safety or not, I am shooting a Glock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 i'm not sure, but, i think i can hold 4 mags in my left hand while shooting. does this mean i get dq'd 4 times? that ?ro doesn't know his magwell from a hole in the ground. if it ain't in the book, it ain't rule. lynn jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 I almost wonder if this "RO" was trying to pull a 10.3.2.1 on the shooter. A friend of mine was shooting a stage... was in mid-process of doing a reload (had dropped the mag) and was holding a fresh mag in his weak hand when he noticed that one of the targets only had one hole in it...he engaged the target before inserting the fresh mag. The "RO" said that he could have DQ'ed him under 10.3.2.1.....which we all know is a pile of crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 At the Texas Limited I shot on a squad with a young man (master or A class, but he could really drive a glock) who almost every stage would draw the pistol and his reload mag at the same time. This young fellow had some of the fastest, smoothest reloads I have ever seen. Just cause its diffrent don't get you DQed. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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