Larrys1911 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Hi everyone, I need some drills that might help in getting to and shooting around barricades and IDPA stuff, I think I can make a bigger difference there than anywhere else. Which foot should you lead out of a shooting position with? is it just personal preference? Larry P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Coming out of a position...if you are going right, pick up the right foot as you are shooting your last target (or sooner ). This will get you "falling" in the direction you are moving to. (You can find a lot of info on this with some searches.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 You must have a big match coming up or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Well, I feel like Travis Tomasie's sock puppet lately, but when he was teaching me movement skills, he emphasized that, moving left to right, he always lifts his left foot first and leads with it. If you "drop" yourself out of the box by lifting the right foot, it's going to be hard not to have a lot of upper body movement that leads to missing the A-box. Lifting the left, by contrast, you can get yourself moving without translating a lot of movement into the gun - if that makes sense. All I can say is, it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrys1911 Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 You must have a big match coming up or something. TSC, Yea know anyone that might want to put in a little practice before that one. Flex and Duane, thanks! Any drills on any of this stuff that help you to learn movement! Larry P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Come to think of it, I guess I do too. Larry, one thing I do is recreate a typical stage you think you will see at this event. Since it's IDPA Nats you are focused on, try to come up with a stage that you might see at the Nats, and make sure it has a lot of movement into different shooting positions. Not too big either, 4 or 5 targets in different locations around vision barriers will work. Run it cold, just like you would at an IDPA match, no walkthrough. Check your timer, write everything down. Look for areas where you felt slow, then work at speeding them up. Run it again, and check the timer. You should see where you need improvement, and where you feel confident at. I'll be doing this exact same thing this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrys1911 Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 Matt. Want some company? Larry P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Wouldn't mind a bit, let me see which day I can go and I'll get back with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Thanks for the great tip Duane! This is a situation I'd been pondering lately. Makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Thanks for the great tip Duane! This is a situation I'd been pondering lately. Makes sense to me. I'm still scratching my head on that one, Sam. I hate to disagree with TT...especially since I can't shoot anywhere near his level...but I can't figure it. For me to move right and lead with the left foot, I have to do some weight shifting and cross-over stepping...which upsets my upper-body more. And then, I can't "drive off" with the left leg...which has greater leverage. Maybe I'm not doing it right. Perhaps I would need to start with more weight on the right foot. Something I'll have to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Flex, There is an old football drill where you run sideways crossing your feet, left in front then right in front, then repeat. I'm sure with TT's background he has no fear doing this. I actually have found you get a better, more solid, push off if you do as TT suggests and you cover more distance. Economy of motion. I have no fear whatsoever in crossing my feet as I have done it a bazilion times over the years from football to martial arts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 L2S, I have no fear of crossing the feet...if it is faster. I feel that it lacks the exact economy of motion that you mention...and it lacks leverage. If I were going to place a hit on a player...I'd love to catch them in the middle of crossing their feet. Their center of gravity would have to be high, and their stance would have to be narrow. They would wake up in the cheap seats. Seriously, I am sure there must be something that is lost in the translation. TT can move like the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Hmmm, flex try this, maybe it will make more sense (moving left to right) take one step right with your right foot. Mark how far you went. Now do the same thing crossing with your left foot. I can move about a foot farther if I step with the left than if I step with the right. So, one foot might not be much, but it is something. The second step for me is more natural also, but we are all different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I have found that crossing the feet over works well if you are moving laterally while shooting. But depending on how far to move is if I do it or not. I didn't realize I did it that much until I saw a video of me during a club match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Tried. Still open to suggestions. So far...no sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Flex, I guess the reason it makes sense to me is that my center of mass tends to drop as I raise my right foot and start to lean out of the box. By raising my left foot and crossing over, I'm still getting the momentum going early, but my center stays level longer. This tip really clicked with me because I have been trying to figure out why my second shot was often hitting a few inches low when I left a box firing a pair. Now, I'm thinking my whole platform has been dipping because of my foot work. BTW, instead of "driving off" I tend to "lean into" the target I'm shooting as I'm exiting a position. Subtle differences in our shooting styles may make this problem more pronounced for me than for you. Duane, keep it up. You are a damn fine sock puppet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Love Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Just an observation- As you guys noted earlier, if you could only take 2 steps, you will cover more distance toward an object if you first move the foot farthest away from that object. However, if you don't have to shoot while moving laterally, as when you are moving left to right between windows or shooting ports in a wall, it might help to pivot the hips toward the right as you begin the step with the left foot, then pivot the hips back toward the targets as the right foot is planting down. Unless, of course, the distance between the windows is very short. In that case, just stay facing 'downrange', and do a lateral crossover with the left foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 I had planned on going and practicing for about 2 hours max, because I had a load of stuff to do at the house when I was done. 5 hours passed by rather quickly, and Larry and I worked on a myriad of things. We did make some discoveries, and I'm still trying to sort through some things. All in all, one of the most productive shooting sessions I have ever had. As I told Larry, it's been quite some time since I have been able to feed off of the other person at a good practice session, and they off of me. We worked on a few movement drills, entering and leaving boxes, coming up to a corner to engage targets, etc... We whittled a sample short IDPA course down to where we could both run it consistantly, and we both shaved about a second off of our first run. It's all in the movement, shooting fast only helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrys1911 Posted September 16, 2003 Author Share Posted September 16, 2003 Im still trying to figure out how to "test" if what we are trying to learn is really faster. We're talking .1 to .2 here and I dont have the consistency to say "coming into position like this saved me x time." We figured we could take .2 - .50 off if we could move into postion a little smoother, and .1 -.2 off leaving a little better. BUT its not like a new holster or stance or whatever that you can use and say this saved me X time! So how do we test it? I am thinking maybe two tgts shoot one move to the other and shoot it. Only watch the movement time. But the difference is so small almost anything can screw up the results. One more question. I have a problem getting out of the shooting postion without trying to "pushoff", when I do that I take a baby step before I move and I am having one hell of a time stopping that. Matt thinks I could save .1 just NOT doing that, I think hes right! Come-on guys HELP! Oh one last thing, Anyone ever get beat by "SPLITS" ? Matt shoots .18s with the Glock with UNBELIEVEABLE consistency! I checked one of his best to one of my best, he won by .11seconds I beat him in movement and tgt trans but his splits were consistently .06-.10 better and after 4 of those...... Matt you have to teach me the auto finger It was very helpfull to me too Matt, see ya Wed! Larry P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 You beat me in movement and target transitions? Gonna have to remedy that! Come to think of it, you did. I suspected you were faster at moving through an IDPA course, that's one of the many reasons I wanted you there. All part of that feeding off of each other thing... I'm gonna leave work Wed and go straight to CASA, arriving at about 4:00. Is that good for you? Speaking of splits and target transitions, right before I leave I'm gonna have to drag out the Limited blaster again just to get my mind right before our Race Gun Sectional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 We figured we could take .2 - .50 off if we could move into postion a little smoother, and .1 -.2 off leaving a little better. Voigt told us that it was 1/4 second getting in, and 1/2 second leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrys1911 Posted September 16, 2003 Author Share Posted September 16, 2003 Matt Ill show you the breakdown wed remind me, I was astonished! Catch me if ya can!!!! I will go straight there as well but remember I have a 70 mile drive from work. OH and bring a little extra ammo I want to see ifn your sights/trigger/load help me with splits at all. I DOUBT IT/ but that removes all doubt! Dont remember what yours were while you were shooting mine! Youre spotn me a second with the IPSC rig right? WIDE45, Voigt told us that it was 1/4 second getting in, and 1/2 second leaving. For me that may be correct but I think it will reverse for Matt! I have trouble not double stepping gettin out and Matt likes to bunny hop getting into position. Works good I can teach him to get in he can teach me to get out! Larry P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 I am thinking maybe two tgts shoot one move to the other and shoot it. Only watch the movement time. But the difference is so small almost anything can screw up the results. Yeah, that's how Travis was saying to practice techniques of movement out of and into position. We used two targets at 10 yards and two boxes. Draw, double tap T1 move to the next box and double tap T2. All you're interested in is the split between shots 2 and 3. (Well, and your accuracy, of course.) And you just constantly try to get that number lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 kind of on this same topic... if you are shooting an array of targets then leaving a box which target do you shoot last? I have tried shooting the one closest to the way I was going to leave the box, and the one furthest. I guess what I'm trying to ask is it faster to shoot left to right if your going to move left to right or shoot right to left if your going to move left to right? thanks Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Since we're getting away from boxes and moving more toward vision barriers, I try to come into position shooting the first target I see, and I let that dictate the order, sometimes it's right to left, sometimes not. Sometimes if there's a low target, I may be moving the gun in a circle ---- because I can usually come in on one of the tall targets, and often can transition to another while still approaching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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