Doggorloader Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I have been shooting my own reloads for a year now in the 44 Mag without a single problem. This last week I started to get dud rounds that would fire on the second try. The case length checks good and the primers are new and seated flush and haven't been polluted in any way. It almost seems as the firing pin mark on the missfires is a tad shallow. Could my dry firing practice have done something? Is it more likely my rounds? The brass is Winchester bulk and these were both 4X and 5X loaded. Primers are WLP. Primer pockets were cleaned at the 3X loaded lightly with a primer pocket brush. What's the best approach to diagnose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underlug Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Let me be the first: check your set screw on the mainspring? If the trigger is feeling really good double action, it may have backed out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underlug Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Next. the primers should be below flush, slightly. Have you changed any springs? Try a different lot of primers. Winchesters are medium on the hardness scale and should go minus a real light trigger job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Mainspring would be my first and second culprit. A distant third would be to check the length of the firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Ditto on what underlug and Erik said. Dry firing can cause the main screw to back out. Blue lock tite works great. I'd like to add: dirt causing friction between the frame and the hammer, resulting in light strike. I had something like this happen to me twice. First time I actually broke the mainspring dry firing. Second time I broke the pin that holds the hammer to the frame. Long shots, but if it's none of the obvious things, you might check it. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I saw a guy that had his thumb dragging on the hammer...ever-so-slightly. It was enough to slow the hammer down and cause light strikes. Flush primer do NOT equal "fully seated". (Just to beat that point home.) Federals are the easiest to set off, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 I lost about a 1/2 chunk of the skin next to the base of my thumb back when I first shot the 44 Mag and believe me, my thumb is nowhere near the hammer cause I remember the feeling. I have never been able to seat the primers in the 44 pistol brass anywhere than just a smidge less than flush on the 550B at best. I even deprime with a depriming die and clean the primer pockets before tumbling every 3rd reload before resizing and continuing. It still is flush to barely less. It feels fully seated and consistant. Is there a corrective action to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Either a reduced power mainspring, the strain screw has wandered out, or the gunsmith who did the trigger job ground the end on the screw a bit to give a lighter trigger pull..... and now the spring has weakened slightly and you are getting misfires. If necessary, you can put a primer cap under the tip of the screw to get a bit more push. Be sure to use blue loctite on the screw, especially if you plan to fine tune the pull by backing it out a shade like some of us have been known to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 The strain screw seems to be where it was when I had it "adjusted" and doesn't seem to have backed off. I called the gunsmith where I got it and he thinks it's mainspring as well. It seems to have a pretty good tension on it. Is it that fussy? He said to bring plenty of ammo with me. Do they test fire until they get it right? How long does it last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Likely it is one of the things already mentioned. But if not, you might check the pin that the hammer sits on - hammer pin (or whatever it is called).That pin broke off at the frame on me one time and caused light strikes. With more dry firing it cleared up. It was only some time later that I realized that the pin was broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 I had exactly the problem you describe and it was exasperating because I would mess around with the gun and then everything would be fine. Then it would happen again, sometimes not for quite a while. I found that it was the primers themselves. I no longer use Winchester primers because I have found them to be inconsistent. Especially if your mainspring is set marginally (relative to winchester primers) you will rarely but surely experience failures with some batches of these primers. I know some people have had great luck with these primers, but like I said, if your mainspring is set marginally to these primers you will experience misfires on some batches. It took me a while to figure this out but through trial and error I found this to be true. If I remember correctly there was a thread about Winchester inconsistencies somewhere in Brian's forums. Good luck, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 22, 2003 Author Share Posted August 22, 2003 It may be coincedence, but this batch was loaded using a brand new box of (1000) primers just purchased as I was running low. The previous box lasted about a month and a half and not a single problem with missfires. I have used only Winchester from the start with the 44 and haven't had any problems. Nothing else seems broken on the gun that I can see and I like it set just the way it is. I think I'll try some different primers first before I have any adjustments. It's a pretty cheap test. Can you adjust the strain screw yourself? It seems pretty straight forward. Common sense says I would think I would need more tension but what increments? 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn, full turn ??? to try. Or is it best left to Mr. Gunsmith?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Doggorloader, It is no big deal to turn the screw 1/4 turn. I take it you have never had the side plate off. Is the misfires comming from single action or double action? Main Springs can weaken over time. I have replaced mine from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 22, 2003 Author Share Posted August 22, 2003 I take the grip off frequently to clear the hand crud but haven't really had a reason to mess with anything. It's only had maybe 4-5000 rounds thru it. When I bought it the smith worked on the trigger pull, checked timing and alignment, and rereamed the forcing cone with a double angle or something and it shot pretty much the way I liked it. My other handguns are all auto's so I'm kind of new to a wheel gun. Can't say I have shot it very much double action and not since I've had the problem so I can't say if it happens both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phara Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 If you do decide to switch primers I have found that Federals are the most sensitive, followed by Remingtons, followed by Winchesters. The Remingtons surprisingly worked great, but I have switched to Federals as I have reduced my mainspring tension so low, it will now only fire Federals reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 I second what Pauls says about the federal primers. They're the softest. As for adjusting the main screw yourself: it's a piece of cake. It's best to start with the screw turned as far in (as tight) as possible. Then loosen it slightly (in easy to remember increments, like 1/2 turn or 1/4 turn), fire about 12 rounds, loosen some more, etc. until you've reached the point where it works fine/no misfires (I always tighten it another 1/4 turn from the point where it seems to work fine, just in case). Write down how many turns from "all the way in" you've loosened it. Now you can loc-tite it in place (without loc-tite shooting the gun will loosen the screw) Just be careful when you take the screw out to put the (blue) loc-tite on it that the spring doesn't come out of the little cut in the frame (bottom of the grip). Put some tape around it or something else to keep it in place. It's not really a problem if it falls out, but you would have to take the side plate off to put it back in. Just put loc-tite on the screw, put it back in and tighten it all the way and immediately back it out as far as you had it backed out in the ideal position (tighten it an extra 1/4 turn if you want to make sure you're safe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Federal primers are the way to go for tuned revolvers. I seat mine about 5 thousandths below flush. If a gunsmith has tuned your revolver then the mainspring screw should be wound in fully and tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 26, 2003 Author Share Posted August 26, 2003 I adjusted the strain screw as suggested and the 44 is back to nasty and good to go. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroy Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 I had some trouble also and i just went to federal primers and solved the problem I had trigger jobs done on my 686 and 66 and my gunsmith puts a small set screw on the side of the frame to retain the mainspring screw, and keep it from backing out. I havent seen many gunsmiths do this. I think it is a great idea. Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I had some trouble also and i just went to federal primers and solved the problem I had trigger jobs done on my 686 and 66 and my gunsmith puts a small set screw on the side of the frame to retain the mainspring screw, and keep it from backing out. I havent seen many gunsmiths do this. I think it is a great idea. Leroy What keeps the smaller screw from backing out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 If you get the urge to tweak more with your 44, think about getting a Wolf mainspring kit. It was the best $9 trigger job I ever bought. The particular kit I got had basically low, medium, and high springs. ("High" was still a couple pounds less than stock) I was able to use the "middle" spring and reach a happy medium where I have a decent pull and can still set off my super-cheapo Winchester primers. I don't know what you're using your 44 for, but in my warped, little world, I need to be able to set off any ammo I put in the gun. Changing mainsprings ain't rocket science BTW. I did it, therefore you can in 1/2 the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroy Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 The small set screw in the side of the frame is held in by a little drop of blue loc tite and and grips ride against it too. i have never had one back out. Leroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 The small set screw in the side of the frame is held in by a little drop of blue loc tite and and grips ride against it too.i have never had one back out. Leroy I just put the drop of blue loctite on the actual strain screw and eliminate the middle man. Never had one move, and I have been known to the unthinkable (shoot with the screw backed out a turn for lighter pull). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I have been known to the unthinkable (shoot with the screw backed out a turn for lighter pull). You wouldn't be on your own on that score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 In my warped little world it's nice to have all the ammo go off as well. I'm using the 44 also for hunting but the truth is I always gravitate to bigger is better. I like shooting plates and watching the paint dust fly in a cloud. I'm not ashamed to admit I keep looking at the pictures of the new 50. I have put about 300 rounds thru after the adjustment and blue loctite and everything is staying put and going off. Same batch of Win primers as well. Think I'll leave as is and save the screw holding a screw holding a screw for a reserve. Thanks again for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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