How Safe is Your Safe Area?

[CSEMARTIN]

Since the recent thread discussing an AD in a "Safe Area" and another that I am personally aware of, I've been wondering just how safe our "Safe Areas" are?

I know of two clubs that are down right dangerous and a third that is questionable. However, nothing is done about it. I catch myself thinking that I'm either the only one that notices these things or I'm just flat out mistaken. The first club is local. While standing in the safe area with your gun out, looking straight ahead, you can see parked cars and people walking up to the range. The other club I shot at this summer had some tables set out with "Safe Area" signs on them, but there was nothing behind them remotely capable of stopping a bullet. In fact, if you stood there you could see people walking on a road about fifty feet away on the wrong side of your muzzle. It's very disturbing!!

Have any of you run into this type of situation, and what in the heck do you do about it? The local club is run by a MD that doesn't take constructive criticism very well--so I'm told....

[JThompson]

Since the recent thread discussing an AD in a "Safe Area" and another that I am personally aware of, I've been wondering just how safe our "Safe Areas" are?

I know of two clubs that are down right dangerous and a third that is questionable. However, nothing is done about it. I catch myself thinking that I'm either the only one that notices these things or I'm just flat out mistaken. The first club is local. While standing in the safe area with your gun out, looking straight ahead, you can see parked cars and people walking up to the range. The other club I shot at this summer had some tables set out with "Safe Area" signs on them, but there was nothing behind them remotely capable of stopping a bullet. In fact, if you stood there you could see people walking on a road about fifty feet away on the wrong side of your muzzle. It's very disturbing!!

Have any of you run into this type of situation, and what in the heck do you do about it? The local club is run by a MD that doesn't take constructive criticism very well--so I'm told....

No. If I had I would scream bloody murder.

Edited November 6, 2008 by JThompson

[ShaunH]

That's a really good point. I'd probably talk to the club president about it or get the board out there and show them. When your talking about money and lawsuits, shit gets done. MD should know better.

I know our safety areas are facing large concrete blocks approximately 4 feet away. That bothers me a bit.

Edited November 6, 2008 by ShaunH

[kimel]

I'm pretty sure if I saw this sort of situation I would climb back in my truck and leave...quickly.

[CSEMARTIN]

I know our safety areas are facing large concrete blocks approximately 4 feet away. That bothers me a bit.

I've seen that at two clubs. The questionable safe area I mentioned earlier is the side of a club house, it's crowded and people are walking by all the time. That one always bothered me. A really good friend of mine has spoken with the MD at that club numerous times. In fact, they've had multiple heated debates about what a "safe area" should be, but the MD never budged. It's sad.

Just out of curiosity, how often have you guys caught competitors gunning up in the parking lot? I parked next to a group of guys recently, and one of the guys pulled his gun out and started showing his buddies. They were pointing the gun at themselves and at each other.

[ShaunH]

Do you have other clubs where you can compete? If so, I wouldn't shoot there anymore. Safety areas pointing toward parking lots or the club house is ridiculous. What is sad is if somebody discharges a round and somebody gets hurt or worse. I know that if we had a club in our section like that, I'd take it to our section coordinator and the board and discuss it.

"Just out of curiosity, how often have you guys caught competitors gunning up in the parking lot? I parked next to a group of guys recently, and one of the guys pulled his gun out and started showing his buddies. They were pointing the gun at themselves and at each other."

That is instant bye bye!! I wouldn't put up with it if I saw it at my match. I'd send them home as per the rule book.

Let me know in PM what club this is so I don't go there!!

Edited November 6, 2008 by ShaunH

[SA Friday]

The biggest problem with having really good safety areas is lack of manpower and sometimes lack of money. I wish I was back in CO and could insert a photo of the ones we have at all the front range clubs. They are stout. They are inserted into the outer end of a side dirt berm, a back wall and two angling out side walls. The walls are typically built out of cut-up railroad ties. I think they are 6x12s. They could 6x6's though. Since they are at the end of the sidewall berm, they are backed by solid dirt. Some even have the sidewalls backed by dirt. I think they drilled holes in the layers and connected them together with rebar, but I could be wrong. I was not there for the last one that was built. If you can get three or four people together for a weekend with the materials and tools you can build one of these permanent safe areas.

Other than an indoor range, I have only shot at one club where a safety area like this could not be built. I'm sure there are more out there, but not many.

Edited November 6, 2008 by SA Friday

[Flexmoney]

Have any of you run into this type of situation, and what in the heck do you do about it? The local club is run by a MD that doesn't take constructive criticism very well--so I'm told....

Don't just criticize.

Volunteer to help, and do so. And, shake it off when that crabby s.o.b. gets a case of the ass.

Then, just fix it.

[JimmyZip]

I wish I was back in CO and could insert a photo of the ones we have at all the front range clubs. They are stout. They are inserted into the outer end of a side dirt berm, a back wall and two angling out side walls. The walls are typically built out of cut-up railroad ties. I think they are 6x12s. They could 6x6's though. Since they are at the end of the sidewall berm, they are backed by solid dirt. Some even have the sidewalls backed by dirt. I think they drilled holes in the layers and connected them together with rebar, but I could be wrong. I was not there for the last one that was built. If you can get three or four people together for a weekend with the materials and tools you can build one of these permanent safe areas.

This is like the safe areas at our local club. Must have used the same plans. I have been to a range that I really like and their idea of a safe area is the berm on the side of the bay. This means that you are on the 180. Because of this, I have been reluctant to return there. I just feel that at a place so popular and well known, they could do something better.

[Greg Bell]

Chris,

Having shot at some of the same clubs I know what you are saying. One of those moved their "safe" area from the backside of a fence to the side berms, this was an excellent decision. Around my new location it is a mixed bag some are safe, some are marginal, and one has no marked area. Also see a fair amount of gunning up at the car here as well. Being the new guy and a Yankee to boot leaves me a bit hesitant to speak up as it appears to have always been that way.

[Franklin D Wolverton]

Chris... if your talking about me and constructive criticism, I take it pretty well. I will argue when I think I'm right though

Of course... I don't know if you were talking about Milan or not

I hadn't really thought about the safety of safe area's to tell you the truth. Now you have me thinking. I worried so much about the actual shooting areas, I think I had it in my head that nobody would be stupid enough to have an AD in the safe area (obviously mistaken).

I'll have to take a look next time I am at the club to see if our safe areas are indeed safe.

Frank

[Jim Norman]

One way that the Safe Area ammo rules had been explained to me was refered to as a "Two-Step" rule.

Ammo in a box, OK

Ammo in your hand No Good

Difference, Two steps to insert bullet into gun vs one step.

Mags on Belt, OK

Mags in Hand No Good

Difference, Two steps to insert bullet into gun vs one step.

Ammo in your range bag, OK

Open containers of ammo set out on "Safe Table" No Good

Difference, Two steps to insert bullet into gun vs one step.

So, you step up to the table, you need parts out of your range bag to fix your gun, You reach in and there are 5 CLOSED ammo boxes on top of your parts case, you take the boxes out and set them on the table to get to your parts, this is OK, however in a different instance your ammo is in a large OPEN topped Plastic Tub, you take that out and set it on the table, this is not allowed as you now have an open container of ammo on the Safe Table.

I will agree that there are likely a few inconsistencies in the rules, and my take is if I need to dive into my range bag and empty it to get to something, maybe I should do so away from the table. As a general rule what is in your bag is OK, take it out at your own risk and certainly don't put a tub or box of ammo on the table and step back to load your mags!

Simple solutions to all this? Yes there area.

One mark out a box around the Safe Table, this is a No Handling of Ammo Zone. Want to load mags, don't do it in here. Make the sides and rear of the safe area very specific so that there is no question possible that a person was in or out of the area. with no side or rear marks is 2 feet back from the table OK? What about closer, but my back was to the table?

Eliminate Ambiguity from your Safe Areas,

One last thing. BACK STOP! a safe area is by definition not safe if there is nothing there to stoop a bullet from leaving the area. The three sided RR Tie idea sounds good, but could be a problem for some ranges, but a folding table with three 2x4s laid out with the table facing the side berm and a sign indicating "Safe Direction or "Aim Point" will eliminate 99.99999% of any chance of things going bad when things go wrong.

Jim

[CSEMARTIN]

Chris... if your talking about me and constructive criticism, I take it pretty well.

Frank, it was you that I was talking about. I'm very glad to see your reaction to my concerns will be positive. I really appreciate that, and I think you've been doing a great job as MD at Milan. I like shooting there, and I'd like to keep shooting there.

I think Flex is right--"don't just criticize, volunteer to help". So here is my offer, even though I'm not a member, I'll come down and help with the safe area if you feel it is necessary.

[JThompson]

Chris... if your talking about me and constructive criticism, I take it pretty well. I will argue when I think I'm right though

Of course... I don't know if you were talking about Milan or not

I hadn't really thought about the safety of safe area's to tell you the truth. Now you have me thinking. I worried so much about the actual shooting areas, I think I had it in my head that nobody would be stupid enough to have an AD in the safe area (obviously mistaken).

I'll have to take a look next time I am at the club to see if our safe areas are indeed safe.

Frank

They aren't bad Frank... the one faces the berm and the woods the other the woods and the backside of the 600yd range. I don't know what's on the other side of the creek where the table was used, but maybe have a look at that. You might put up some do not cross tape on the other side of the one closest to range 10, so nobody could walk between the safe area and the berm behind the table. (left side facing table)

[Franklin D Wolverton]

I planned on installing better tables and some boundary markers for next year anyway. Just hadn't thought about the backstop.

I've got an idea... I'll run out (probably tomorrow) and take pics of our safe areas... then everyone can see what we are talking about.

Frank

[Flexmoney]

I've got an idea... I'll run out (probably tomorrow) and take pics of our safe areas... then everyone can see what we are talking about.

Frank

Frank,

When you get those pics, start a new thread for us. We need a thread like that where we can all share ideas and get the best stuff working for us.

Thanks.

[CSEMARTIN]

Here is something to think about (And this is not directed at any particular person). If someone gets hurt on your range and some prosecutor out there thinks you were negligent, you just might get indicted and face prison time.

http://www.wbur.org/news/2008/81823_20081204.asp

[JKSNIPER]

That's a really good point. I'd probably talk to the club president about it or get the board out there and show them. When your talking about money and lawsuits, shit gets done. MD should know better.

I know our safety areas are facing large concrete blocks approximately 4 feet away. That bothers me a bit.

Agreed with Shaun here 100%.

When you talk about how many zeros the family of the injured/killed party will win in the lawsuit then magically stuff gets done.

Especially when you point it out in a formal letter to the club which you also copy to your attorney "Just in case anything should happen".

JK