New "old guy" getting back in

[nickatnite]

Hey folks!!!

I didn't really see a place for n00bs to post up, so I figured that I would post here. I'm a old shooter, looking to get back into the shooting sports.

I used to shoot in the late 90's here at Liberty and McComb Gun Club (NRA Action Pistol) with Ruthie, MJ, George, Phillip, Chief Hughes and others.

Little background, I used to work with Chief Hughes and Phillip Hemphill at MHP and also again w' Chief at McComb PD. Then left, went back to school and finishing up my engineers and business degree and working in the wonderful oil field...

I thought that the shooting gun bug had long gone, but I've been finding myself at the range more and more when I'm home.

I haven't made up my mind if I want to shoot my revolver again or shoot a semi. Time will tell.

Anyway, greetings to all of you and hope to shoot with some of you in the future!

Nick Wilson

[Hi-Power Jack]

Welcome, Nick, I did the same thing !!

I used to shoot IPSC back in the late 80's and

early 90's, and quit until last year.

But, the itch returned, with a vengeance ...

A few things have changed since the 90's,

from my perspective, anyway:

1. the shooters are all much better than they were:((

2. the guns are better - when you get to the range,

you'll see STI's that will make you shake your

head, and wonder whey they didn't exit back then

- in both OPEN & Limited, these new guns can't

be beaten - they are superb.

But, don't let #1 and #2 slow you down - it's still fun

to shoot with my 45 year old Browning Hi-Power, or

whatever you have stashed away - there is a revolver

category, and a bunch of other categories, also, so

you will be shooting not against the STI's (God forbid)

but against people who have guns like we used to have:))

Good luck with your shooting.

Jack

[rupie]

I am three months removed from a 15 year layoff also and I have been having a blast. I am shooting uspsa production with a glock and having a great time. I can shoot a match every weekend if i got the time. there are a a lot of shooting clubs in my area. I used to shoot open when optics were aim points and rare to see, and very few people would move and shoot at the same time. Back then I made some courses to try to get people to shoot and move closer targets and a shooting walkway instead of shooting boxes. Now it is standard, i like that. I was worried that with older eyes i would have to shoot open to see the sights and then i found fiber optics. They are awesome sights. Welcome back and have fun.

[Alan550]

Hi-Power Jack & rupie,

Did either of you notice that this is an Action Pistol section on here? Tied to Bianchi type shooting and not uspsa or ipsc?

Just wondered.

Alan~^~

[oldtrooper]

Hello Nick, good to hear from you again. We still shoot two Action Pistol matches each month but both are at the Amite County range. The mover died at the McComb range and the word is they will get it going again by the first of the year. Send me a PM and I'll give you the dates.

Welcome to the forum.

[rupie]

Hi-Power Jack & rupie,

Did either of you notice that this is an Action Pistol section on here? Tied to Bianchi type shooting and not uspsa or ipsc?

Just wondered.

Alan~^~

Yes I did, does that mean we cant relate to someone returning to action shooting after a period of time off? I know we don't discriminate on the USPSA side I guess I wasn't aware that you guys don't like to talk to us? I started shooting in the marines from a guy that started shooting at the bianchi cup in the 80's so I guess relating to his situation was something to laugh about? Sorry I wont cross discipline threads again.......Crap I haven't shot a large bore rifle since the marines and I commented on another thread about long range shooting.......I better go edit it before some one laffs at me.

[nickatnite]

Hi-Power Jack & rupie,

Did either of you notice that this is an Action Pistol section on here? Tied to Bianchi type shooting and not uspsa or ipsc?

Just wondered.

Alan~^~

Yes I did, does that mean we cant relate to someone returning to action shooting after a period of time off? I know we don't discriminate on the USPSA side I guess I wasn't aware that you guys don't like to talk to us? I started shooting in the marines from a guy that started shooting at the bianchi cup in the 80's so I guess relating to his situation was something to laugh about? Sorry I wont cross discipline threads again.......Crap I haven't shot a large bore rifle since the marines and I commented on another thread about long range shooting.......I better go edit it before some one laffs at me.

You guys are killing me here!!!

I got thick skin tho~

I've shot some IPSC matches as well, so that is an option down the road, esp since I want to shoot my gun stock...

I'll see you at the range then!

[rupie]

Ya i was just trying to be sarcastic, what is new for IPSC is production class, stock gun cheap holster, you still need plenty of mags but it is a lot of fun as always against guys with out spending a lot of money on equipment. its the biggest class in the local area here. Whats everyone using for bianchi cup shooting these days back when my boss was shooting he had a model 10 38 with a scope. and he pinned the scope against the barricade.

[mpolans]

Ya i was just trying to be sarcastic, what is new for IPSC is production class, stock gun cheap holster, you still need plenty of mags but it is a lot of fun as always against guys with out spending a lot of money on equipment. its the biggest class in the local area here. Whats everyone using for bianchi cup shooting these days back when my boss was shooting he had a model 10 38 with a scope. and he pinned the scope against the barricade.

The cool kids are using tricked out 1911s with compensators, red dot sights, and shroud that encases the slide with wings on it so you can use one hand to clamp it to the barricade. Model 10s and 686s are pretty much obsolete for the Open Division.

[nickatnite]

Ya i was just trying to be sarcastic, what is new for IPSC is production class, stock gun cheap holster, you still need plenty of mags but it is a lot of fun as always against guys with out spending a lot of money on equipment. its the biggest class in the local area here. Whats everyone using for bianchi cup shooting these days back when my boss was shooting he had a model 10 38 with a scope. and he pinned the scope against the barricade.

The cool kids are using tricked out 1911s with compensators, red dot sights, and shroud that encases the slide with wings on it so you can use one hand to clamp it to the barricade. Model 10s and 686s are pretty much obsolete for the Open Division.

Yup, that is what I have been reading.

I'm gonna shoot my stock 9mm's right now. It's a toss up between my Glock 17L, or regular 17 or Springfield XD 9.

For the past few times I've been at the range, the XD 9 has just been a hands down winner on accuracy and feel.

[Allgoodhits]

Revolvers obsolete at Bianchi? Lesser numbers than autos yes, but not obsolete.

At the 2008 Bianchi Cup there were 150 shotters who had scores. Of those 22 shot revolvers. Of those 22, 9 shot Master score or higher at Bianchi.

The first perfect score fired at Bianchi was with a revolver. Jerry M. was second Metallic with a revolver last year. Revolvers are far from obsolete at the Bianchi Cup and they are also far from obsolete at local and state & Regional AP Matches.

Shoot what you want, but don't let anyone tell you that a revolver is obsolete for the NRA AP game and specifcally the Bianchi Cup. Has an auto won "overall" in recent years? Yes? I would venture to say that if Doug, Bruce, Carl maybe even Kevin and some others shot revos, the Revolver would be gun of choice. For that matter, if Jerry M. spent adequate time with an open revolver, the outcome may also be different.

The newest Production Rules just may prove that a turn of the century design of the revolver may just out perform the new generation of synthetic hardware.

Now, if we could only get Colt back in to the fray.

MJ

[Viggen]

The newest Production Rules just may prove that a turn of the century design of the revolver may just out perform the new generation of synthetic hardware.

____________

Care to elaborate on the "newest Production rules"? Then I won't have to dig up my rulebook that is buried somewhere in the house.

[Allgoodhits]

The newest Production Rules just may prove that a turn of the century design of the revolver may just out perform the new generation of synthetic hardware.

____________

Care to elaborate on the "newest Production rules"? Then I won't have to dig up my rulebook that is buried somewhere in the house.

They are not in print, except on this Forum and that is not 100% complete. However, what has been posted, to my understanding is:

Semi- auto: Barrel not to exceed 5.35" with minimum trigger pull of 3.5 lbs. No single action guns permitted, DA/SA and striker type actions are OK, i.e. Glock and some others. There will be some limitations on sights and grips, but basically no aftermarket barrels etc.

Revolver: same as above except barrel length may be up to 6".

The goal I think is to try to attract entry level shooters and equipment to NRA Action Pistol.

MJ

[mpolans]

Revolvers obsolete at Bianchi? Lesser numbers than autos yes, but not obsolete.

At the 2008 Bianchi Cup there were 150 shotters who had scores. Of those 22 shot revolvers. Of those 22, 9 shot Master score or higher at Bianchi.

The first perfect score fired at Bianchi was with a revolver. Jerry M. was second Metallic with a revolver last year. Revolvers are far from obsolete at the Bianchi Cup and they are also far from obsolete at local and state & Regional AP Matches.

Shoot what you want, but don't let anyone tell you that a revolver is obsolete for the NRA AP game and specifcally the Bianchi Cup. Has an auto won "overall" in recent years? Yes? I would venture to say that if Doug, Bruce, Carl maybe even Kevin and some others shot revos, the Revolver would be gun of choice. For that matter, if Jerry M. spent adequate time with an open revolver, the outcome may also be different.

The newest Production Rules just may prove that a turn of the century design of the revolver may just out perform the new generation of synthetic hardware.

Now, if we could only get Colt back in to the fray.

MJ

. . . said the guy who was shooting a tricked out 1911 in open. Trade you my 686 open gun for your 1911 open gun . . . I'll even throw in a bunch of speedloaders!

Edited October 8, 2008 by mpolans

[Action Pistolero]

Bet ya Martin or I can shoot a High Master score with your gun.

It's not the gun. It's the shooter driving it.

Kevin

[mpolans]

Bet ya Martin or I can shoot a High Master score with your gun.

It's not the gun. It's the shooter driving it.

Kevin

That, I don't doubt at all. Heck, you guys could probably do it thumb-cocking a Ruger Blackhawk. But the original point was, tricked out 1911s are now dominating Open at the Bianchi Cup.

[Allgoodhits]

Bet ya Martin or I can shoot a High Master score with your gun.

It's not the gun. It's the shooter driving it.

Kevin

That, I don't doubt at all. Heck, you guys could probably do it thumb-cocking a Ruger Blackhawk. But the original point was, tricked out 1911s are now dominating Open at the Bianchi Cup.

Hey Mark,

The point was to "not discourage" someone from shooting NRA AP with a revolver. In Metallic and likely in the new Production a revolver will defintely hold it's own against semi-autos. A revo is a good entry level metallic gun and a good entry level open gun. Just a scope on a revo does make a pretty darn good and inexpensive Open gun. Quality used PPC revos can be had for $400-800 and they will shoot.

Considering a tricked out Open gun, a quality Open Revolver can be built at approximately 40 - 60% of the cost of an Open Semi auto. The Revo will do just about as well with lead or jacket bullets, thus the cost to shoot will be less too.

I shot revos at BC from 96-2000. I think I switched to semi in 2001. I have not yet shot as good a score at BC with the semi as I did with the revos. Of course I am older, fatter and grumpier too. I have shot a 1920 once with the auto, and have shot 1918 with each gun. I think I have shot more 1910's or above with the revo than with the auto.

I find that the auto is easier to shoot an X, but it also easier to shoot a 5 or the famous 8 on a plate! With the wheel gun just keep working the trigger and steer the gun into the aiming area. With the auto you must develop the balls to pause, or one might be shooting some "moons" or satelites around the ten ring especially on the barricade and Mover.

NRA AP shooting is quite unique. It is not a speed event, and it is not an absolute accuracy event, but it is a "difficult compromise" of each. I believe the speed is just fast enough, and "varying" enough to keep us off guard. Like the 25 yard practical especially at 3 and 3 in 7 seconds. Yet the ten ring is "big" enough to entice us. Followed by the 50 yd 3 and 3 in 15 seconds where we don't take the time needed and permitted to shoot quality shots at 50 yds. We ALL get "reeled" into this game, as it is the most frustrating game I have ever played, and that is why I like it! I come back to overcome a previous bad peformance or to duplicate and build on a good one.

....and then there is the mover, which technically should not be that difficult to shoot a 456+. Which is mathematically tens at 10, 15 & 20 and at least 8's at 25. Even a 470+ is acheiveable by most all of us, given the distances, the time and the difficulty. The Mover continuously proves that shooting is a mental game, thus the mind is a terrible thing when it comes to shooting.

I most recently shot a 1905 at the Kevin's VA Regional, and I missed the first damn plate at 10 yds. Heck, I had 6 seconds to hit that one. Then I shot a low shot at 50 yds on the Practical and called it before walking down to the targets. At first it appeared to be a 480, but I knew there was a bad shot. Well it was a 475 Practical with a 5 that was so BAD, we weren't looking that far out. So I am 15 down and have to finish on the mover. I managed to clean the Mover, because I had too. I knew I could if I kept focus on the goal being to shoot each shot "acceptably good" no need for perfection, and to "not" think about anything else, then I could clean the mover. Being 15 down already I was running out of mathematical combinations to stay above 1900. I could not afford 44 or 45 perfect shots with 3 or four bad ones. I needed 48 accepotably good (tens) shots. I think the scores above mine were a 1912-Thomey, 1914-Flagler and 1916-Angstadt. I mentally lost this match, but more importantly, failed to shoot a 1920 by missing a plate at 10 yds, then shooting a low 5 (trigger jerk) during a 15 second string where there is no hurry at all! ( I think Ken M. and maybe someone else was above 1900 too. )

You and senior need to shoot some more of the matches. Join the ranks of dozens of really good shooters "like yourselves" who have the ability to shoot 1900+. Yet like many others at tournaments shoot well below our practice scores and our physical abilities. That is what makes Bianchi special. If others would try it (more than a few times) they too would be hooked I am sure. Shooting NRA AP will make one a better shooter at no matter what else they do, as they go back to their "other" shooting game. NRA AP may be good "cross training" for the USPSA, IDPA, PPC and BE crowd.

MJ

Edited October 11, 2008 by Allgoodhits

[gm iprod]

But the original point was, tricked out 1911s are now dominating Open at the Bianchi Cup.

True enough, like any sport competition has bred a certain style that works best for the matches we shoot, but it was not always that way. Once a few guys who had the balls to buy / build a tricked out auto and started winning then everybody had to get one. BUT many guns were not up to the task, that when guys like Riley Gilmour started really getting their act together and made tight, reliable and accurate semi autos, up until then you only got two out of the three. There was a mind set that revolvers are more accurate than autos. That was true because all the good gunsmiths were making and being asked to make revolvers, not autos because guys were scared off by the not accurate enough. So it was at the time a self fulfilling prophesy.

Once the ice was broken we got to where we are today. I will admit that I prefer to shoot my auto, and what has happened in the design of autos over the past 5 years is staggering.

Kelly Gilmour shot in 2007 and he used a revolver, not sure of his placing but he beat a heap of guys with autos. I love my revolvers, but with RSI (and the hint of Arthritis) in my right trigger finger I had to go auto.

The NRA Action Pistol program has more matches than the Bianchi 4, it used to be 5. Robbie Leatham has the highest ever score at a BC when they shot 5. Unlikely to beat that with 48 rounds less fired. If they brought in extra matches then the guns will change. More research and modifications to suit those matches they add in. To try and get an advantage over others. This is NORMAL, and goes on in all sports. Just look at NASCAR with all the chanmges o the new car. Every new innovation makes it harder for anyone getting in or coming back. The learning curve just gets a little sharper.

At the end of the day whatever the winner is using will be the next big thing. Just ask Brian, everything he and Robbie did twenty years ago is now standard procedure. It is now harder to get that edge.

[Action Pistolero]

Thanks, GM. Pretty much my thoughts also.

It all boils down to the fact that innovation is what drove the move to auto's. The shroud is what made the auto useful on the Barricade. Before that the auto was a disadvantage to the revolver because of the ability to use the Barricade for support.

With the new Production class I believe we will now see the move back to revolvers. Mostly due to the accuracy requirement, the revolver will reign superior to the Stock autos that are available today. My gun of choice will be a 686 plus.