Must Shoot Faster

[the Cod Father]

I am looking for some advice to help me shoot faster . I guess I mean that I ned to be able to pull the trigger more quickly.

I don't see myself as a threat to JM any time soon but I would like to be able to get the lead out of my 625 a bit faster . The few times I have seriously tried really working the trigger it seemed to bind up and the cylinder would stop moving and I would have to release the trigger and allow everything to reset before I could get it to go again .

If anyone can offer any advice I will be most appreciative

to hear.

TCF

[Carmoney]

OK, that sounds like a gun problem. None of us can outrun the action on a S&W revolver. Not even Jerry.

Several times I've seen guns with messed-up actions that would allow the cylinder stop to re-engage the same notch before the hand has a chance to index it out of the way. Replacing the cylinder stop sometimes fixes the problem, more often the gun needs to be re-timed with an oversize hand.

Now--if the gun is functioning correctly and you're simply "double-clutching" the trigger before the trigger moves all the way forward, you need to work on releasing the trigger faster and more positively. Get out of the habit of letting the trigger push your finger forward for you, and start consciously moving your finger forward.

[David Sinko]

Do you shoot a lot with the semiautos? If so, then stop! I shot only revolvers for years and never had any problems when I shot as fast as I could pull the trigger. Then I spent time with the autos, and when I came back to the revolvers I experienced what I thought was the occasional skipping chamber in my heavily utilized 625. I started to blame the gun. But that was all nonsense. I had nothing to blame but myself. You start to lose touch. The autos will corrupt you!

Dave Sinko

[cas]

Trigger return spring too light?

[Carmoney]

Trigger return spring too light?

That was my first thought too, but he talked about the gun binding up and the cylinder stopping its movement. It sure sounded like it wasn't indexing properly.

[Carmoney]

Do you shoot a lot with the semiautos? If so, then stop! I shot only revolvers for years and never had any problems when I shot as fast as I could pull the trigger. Then I spent time with the autos, and when I came back to the revolvers I experienced what I thought was the occasional skipping chamber in my heavily utilized 625. I started to blame the gun. But that was all nonsense. I had nothing to blame but myself. You start to lose touch. The autos will corrupt you!

Dave Sinko

Aw heck, Dave, many of us switch back and forth all the time. I often run back through the same local match with another gun in another division, at matches where that is permitted. (I will admit that is one reason why I changed to weak-hand reloads, so that I'm always reaching for the spare ammo with my left hand.) Being able to master a variety of different guns is a fun challenge unto itself. Our Iowa back-to-back Revo/1911 match was always a big hit.

[Bubber]

Cod Father, on the binding issue, I will go along with Carmoney where this can be caused by a timing issue or a shooter issue. Not letting the trigger forward enought ot engage the cylinder stop will cause the revo to bind up and no amount of pulling is going to get it to go. The gotta shoot faster syndrome is not the way to go. It is "gotta hit faster'. No amount of decreasing your "split time" will help if you are not getting an acceptable sight picture before breaking the shot. Getting the "cylinder" to "roll" as you are aquiring a target is the way to go. Something that I have yet to achieve on my first shot of each stage. After the first shot I do ok. I hope this is helpful. Later rdd

[snertley]

Do you shoot a lot with the semiautos? If so, then stop! I shot only revolvers for years and never had any problems when I shot as fast as I could pull the trigger. Then I spent time with the autos, and when I came back to the revolvers I experienced what I thought was the occasional skipping chamber in my heavily utilized 625. I started to blame the gun. But that was all nonsense. I had nothing to blame but myself. You start to lose touch. The autos will corrupt you!

Dave Sinko

Shooting mostly Revo this last year I think has improved my auto shooting quite a bit, or at least made it easier. I like to shoot a variety of guns at matches, they are sort of like potato chips. Can't have just one.

[the Cod Father]

Well that's alot to think about guys , great !!!!!

To answer you r questions , I may not be releasing the trigger far enough and i can see that as a big part of the problem. I have been considering putting on a trigger stop to give me an idea as to how far to pull the trigger. I did shoot autos for a while but after alot of problems I had with a pistol that was supposed to have been built by a pro smith ,I got fed up and have been shooting my 625 ever since . I haven't looked bak since and after I started I have seen several shootere switch to their wheel guns.

As far as the return spring goes the one in there is only 11LBs( I paid for a trigger job and ended up with a light spring and having the mainspring screw backed right out to lower the trigger weight) The screw is now tightened down and I have just recieved a 14 and 15 LB return spring to get a consistant return pressure .

Bubber , What did you mean when you said that I should be getting the cylinder to roll ? I am the longest shooting revo man here and as such I haven't really had anyone to turn to in a specific revolver mentor so any info you can pass on is welcome.

While you have all given me lots to consider I also have no problem considering that it may be operator failure as well and I am just not doing something right ,as I said I was the first revo shooter here so there is alot I have no one to turn to for useful tips .

Hope that helps

TCF

[snertley]

I think Bubber is speaking of prepping the trigger as you come into your next target, and starting the "roll" as in getting your trigger part or most of the way back by the time you line up your sights. Thats my guess, im the new guy here (FNRG) , so take it with a grain of salt. Lets hear from the masters to see for sure.

[pskys2]

There are 2 kinds of problems that can be caused by short stroking the trigger.

1) You rotate the cylinder and don't move the hammer, so the gun won't fire. But it won't bind up.

2) There is a sweet spot, and it doesn't seem to be something you can actually recreate on demand, that will catch the trigger on the cylinder stop and it will bind the gun up solid. Until you release the trigger again and then everything functions normally. I've had it happen on all 4 S&W's I've owned and shot.

You might also check all of the studs inside the Revolver, there are the Hammer, Trigger, Rebound, Cylinder Stop. I've had hammer and trigger studs break and they can bind up the action in wierd ways. To check just take off the side plate and see if any are loose. Usually when they go bad they just break off, so they fall out when the plates off. The studs should not be loose and don't go pressing on them real hard they will bend if not careful.

If it's just #2 above try several different rebound springs until one feels right. It's not always the heaviest that will solve the problem.

[Bubber]

Cod Father, Snertly is right. It is the getting the trigger and cylinder moving as you are "lining up" your sight to the next target. Once the sights are lined up you finish the pull and start the next. If done correctly there is no stopping in the motion. My challenge is on the draw, My first shot is terribly slow because on a multiple shot stage I wait until I am on target before I start the pull. (Bad Bubber, Bad Bubber) But after that I am smoother. I will although (please beware of the stones being tossed) stop at each long range target to get the accuracy I want. (Bad Bubber, Bad Bubber) But the medium and close (3 yards to 15 yards) I pull right through em still seeing each shot break with an acceptable sight picture.

[the Cod Father]

Well pskys2, I can guarantee that I do my best to NEVER short stroke anything !!!!! However I can see what you mean . I used the term " Binding " for lack of another way to explain what was happening so you may be close to explain what is happening . Do you think that putting in a strongert return spring and/or trigger stop would eleviate this issue.

Thanks

TCF

[Carmoney]

If it's not a gun problem, then try a stronger rebound spring. (I don't think a trigger stop will help.) But be conscious of deliberately and positively releasing the trigger every time--don't use the rebound spring as a crutch to push your finger forward.

[Viggen]

Faster, slower,etc,etc,,,,,

Do you have a timer? What are your splits shot-to-shot?

[enoon]

Will a stronger return spring alleviate the issue? Maybe. But I would dare to suggest that it would mask it as much as alleviate it. Probably better in the long run to train yourself to release the trigger rather than have the trigger push your finger forward. You will become faster and smoother, too.

[pskys2]

Not necessarily. I've actually had MORE Problems with a factory spring than anything.

But....

As enoon says part of it is a learning thing, but not all.

1) For starters use the spring weight that gives you a trigger release that has "NO" hitch in the last 1/4" or so of the trigger return. It's a balancing act between the Mainspring/Rebound Springs.

2) Then play with the weights up/down to see what feels best to you and works best. One reason why I like the Spring Packs with multiple weights in them.

3) Then remember that the speed that you release the trigger must be equal to the speed you squeezed the trigger.

Once you have it down, but remember it will still happen on occassion we're only human, you can then worry about such things as actual trigger pull weights.

One of the things that causes this issue is the Cylinder Stop not smoothly gliding over the trigger nose. You can also get JM's Action Work DVD and some stones, an extra Cylinder Stop and smooth the new one down. Then you have a good one and a spare.

[Model19]

If it's not a gun problem, then try a stronger rebound spring. (I don't think a trigger stop will help.) But be conscious of deliberately and positively releasing the trigger every time--don't use the rebound spring as a crutch to push your finger forward.

True that. I sometimes find myself hurrying and doing exactly that... not letting the trigger return full travel. I think it's because I started handgunning with 1911's and you can get pretty lazy with your trigger finger. The lock up phenomenon only happens when I try and get real fast on the trigger. I can't "ride" the trigger out like with a 1911, I need to let it reset, which becomes second nature after consciously practicing it for a bit.