New Comer from Greenville, S.C.

[BWT]

So I've been a member of this forum for awhile, but I've never posted, I forgot about it for awhile and came back, but I have a few Questions I'd like to throw out there, I'll be turning 21 in less than thirty days and I think my Ideas are pretty on point, so far, but I was wondering if there's anything else anyone would recommend.

I. Firearm Selection

So, I plan on getting a handgun for concealed carry, I thought for many years, I'd go with a Wilson/Les Bear/RR/Brown etc., I've decided in the last few days that I'm not quite there financially, but I'll wait until I am before I buy, why be half-way satisfied and settle? I plan on a 5'' Single Stack, fixed combat sights, maybe an S&A Mag Well, etc. I was told about RR recently and told they have a surprisingly good line, though they design pistols much like Baer, in that they're very tightly fit. Anything I've over looked, let me know.

II. I was thinking about the type of shooting I'd like to do, or at least start out as, this would be Practical shooting type shooting, etc.

So if anyone has any particular suggestions, let me know.

III. So this is a competitive shooting board, and I've realized now that I've probably come to the correct place to get recommendations on technique, or one of the better venue's available. I've got an issue, that I think will end up having to be addressed in one way or another. I'm right handed and left eye dominant... Which made me think I would train to use the Modified Weaver, but after speaking to other individuals on other forums about this very subject, I was told that I should just shoot shoulders squared, somewhat naturally, as not only is that easier to use, but also, if I'm going to shoot not just for fun, but for also practical training (possibly?) I present a smaller profile with the Weaver, but I also present the opportunity if shot to be hit through multiple organs or it go through the abdomen at a somewhat side angle, etc. Where as when squared with the target, it could pass through and not hit anything vital or at least just one organ.

One thing I saw, and thought about and it's at least worth mentioning here, should I try firing with no Sights? Maybe a natural point of aim would work better? Should I fire with my left eye closed? I've heard shoot with an eye patch, etc.

IV. I'm not new to firearms, but I'll be new to these sports and new to carrying a handgun, etc, so I figure the best way to learn is practical, so for that reason I'm looking and the common consensus is that Marvel Produces the best .22 Conversion kits (I am in college, and I work part time), so buying 200-300 rounds for a day of practice and expecting that to be common place is unrealistic. I was looking at particularly their Unit 2, I've heard that the Unit 1 is more accurate, but I think the benefit of the Unit 2 is I'll stick with the sight picture familiar to me, and a slide that's more familiar as well (Front cocking serrations, etc.)

V. Also, last question/subject, I saw one of the members here is from Columbia and works with USPSA, but where should I go to find matches, or is there anyone here that maybe I could pair up with down the road?

VI. Where should I pick up some training material, I'll buy Brian's book I'm sure but any other recommendations?

Thanks, for your time and reading, I usually don't divide posts into six parts like that, but I had some pretty specific questions, I appreciate any and all input.

Brandon.

[Turbo23]

First off WELCOME

As a far as a gun for CCW, as some one that has carried for some time now. (and this is just my opinion) I would never carry a 5" er.... I would carry something much smaller.

1- If a 5 is what you want, then on a budget I might look at the S_I Trojan? Just a thought

2- This is souly your choice. USPSA all the way for me

3- You are in the right place for this subject. The search sould provide you with an abudance of info for dominace. I ahve not had to look it up.

4- I dont have much for you here either... Sorry

5- USPSA.ORG will have links to clubs in your area.

6- Brians book is a great start. I would also get Mr. Andersons books too. Found on Brians sight. Great drills that can be done in you dorm room. No ammo!!!! DRY FIRE is good for the soul

Best of luck to you and questions hear render answers that you can learn form.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Turbo23

[chirpy]

Welcome BWT...I feel for you as far as finances go. I was there once and am now on the other end, no not rich but retired and on a limited budget. You also might try IDPA and there club finder option only because it is more self defense oriented. I compete in both and have for years and like both for different reasons. Weapons choice is up to you but find USPSA or IDPA matches and or practice days of clubs in your area. Go and watch and ask questions and learn. Take notes even.

Good Luck,

Richard

PS: Check out the rules on both sites also. Post questions here. Also, there is an IDPA forum.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'd suggest you start with a less expensive gun that you

can afford NOW. Better to have any gun, than none.

I also suggest, if money is tight, start with a 9mm -

the ammo is a lot cheaper - if you load with +P+

hollow points - that should be adequate for carry.

Try to shoot without sights, just once, and I think

you'll answer your own question about that one:((

It sounds great, but I can't do it. If You can, do

it.

Good luck, hope this helps a little.

[BWT]

I'll think about it, the thing is, I don't want to end up buying a firearm I'm not happy with, having to sell it, take a moderate loss on it, then scrap more money together to get what I want.

I mean, I can wait a couple of months if that's what it takes. I've already waited 21 years. But if I find something worth while, I will pounce on it.

I'm still on the fence about getting a 5'' 1911 or not. They're rather long, slim profile, but long.

[leam]

1. Depends on your body size and strength. A 5" 1911 weighs a ton after a while. That's one of the joys of a polymer frame. Of course, it depends on where you plan on carrying too. Can't do it at college, or drinking, or anyplace you pay to get into, etc. I'd suggest a Concealed Carry class *before* you buy a gun, it'll open your eyes a bit and steer the choice.

2. Most things you buy stock will work for IDPA and USPSA. Find the one in your area you enjoy. I think they are both in your area and good clubs too. It more becomes what you have time and $$ for, honest!

3. I'm left handed and right eye dominant. Read Brian's book, and quit asking someone else what *your* body should do. Try all sorts of positions, don't tape your glasses or wear a patch. For long range shots just squint the weak eye a little.

And quit listening to me tell you what your body should do!

4. Marvel conversion *after* Steve's book. Marvel is great but at the cost of Steve's book you can smooth up your skills much better than most of us. I'm going through his book for my training.

5. On picking a gun, it doesn't have to be a 1911. You'll save money if a polymer frame fits your hand. FIT IS KING! Followed directly by sights. All the rest of the stuff we natter about is less than 25% of anything, if that. If the gun fits you then it's great, don't worry about anything else except good crips sights.

5.a. Well, think about aftermarket support. I have a SIG SP2022 I'll sell you. Great gun, fits me like a glove, and next to no aftermarket support for anything besides stock parts. Aftermarket support is trird party replacement parts that change something. You may not have to change anything, but if you do there's no options for some guns. The 1911 is the opposite extreme. Everybody and their dead cat makes frames, barrels, and disconnectors for it.

6. You'll need a holster, mag carrier, and at least 3 magazines for IDPA. Add at least 2 more magazines and another double mag carrier for USPSA. Both groups of people are great sports and fun to shoot with. And if you open your head you'll learn a lot. Ignore the "us vs them" game. I fell prey to it and finally figured out how wrong I was.

Hope that helps.

Leam

[WDB]

Welcome to the forums and practical shooting!! Here is a link to all the clubs in SC. Have shot all except Coastal. Good group of guys at all clubs. Stage layout will differ due to match directors preferences. So they offer a variety. Go out to one of the matches some weekend and see whats out there before spending your money. For a carry/comp. gun, off the top of my head I would recommend either an XD or (I hate saying this) a Glock. They would allow you to shot Production, Limited 10 or Limited. As far as dry firing in your dorm room, if you are on campus you may want to make sure you are legal, I'm no expert but something to check rather than assume. Good luck and hope to see you on the range.

http://www.southcarolina-uspsa.org/section_clubs.htm

Warren

[BWT]

Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it.

Honestly I was thinking about a USP, I like Heckler and Koch, they're a good manufacturer, double stacked magazine, .45 ACP. I've used Glocks before, my dad owns a G21, he lives in Atlanta though, I'll say this Glock's have a bit of a learning curve to shoot, they're kind of boxy, and I can't imagine concealing one.

I'm also hesistant to carry anything without an external safety. The thing that drew me to 1911's, I've fired one, the slim profile, the grip, and honestly, looking at them, they look small to me. They just do. I'm also 6'0'' and 245 lbs. (I'm not obese, just a larger guy.)

The slotted trigger, the safety, they really do have a great pointing feeling. I don't have large hands, I'd say about medium size, I'll think about the Polymer framed models, such as the XD (I like the grip safety), P220 (Which I've heard a lot of great things about) and H&K USP.

I appreciate all of the input. I understand that there are more 1911 manufacturer's in the U.S. than any other pistol, there are probably more after market part manufacturers than any other model as well.

Honestly, I was looking at a Springfield TRP, but I figured at that point, why not just get a RRA Basic Carry? You're already paying ball park 1200, what's 1600 at that point?

I think I need to buy books, and get exposure. I also need to go to quite a few FFL's probably rent a few firearms and make a selection based off of that.

Thanks again, I appreciate all the help and info.

Also, I go to a local college, and work part time, I plan on transferring to a University, but I don't think I'll ever live on campus.

[leam]

I'm about your size but more round that muscular. A 1911 is not too hard to conceal for us.

Try the new Springfield XDM and the S&W M&P. Both have some awesome grips even though they are polymer framed. My 1911 has plain rubber grip panels and it makes a world of difference for me. The Sig P250 has factory large grips that might fit if the stock ones don't. Sadly, Sig seems to make you order the grips from them sight unseen.

The thing about external safeties is that they can easily be knocked off. Thus you get a false sense of security because you never know if it's on or not.

I'd have to admit that spending more than $800 for a gun is a bit much. If you have a $1600 budget then:

$100 for competition holster, mag carrier, and 2 extra mags.

$90 for a great concealed carry holster.

$150 for gunsmith trigger work, after the first 1000 rounds.

$65 for Brian and Steve's books.

$250 for a bulk ammo purchase.

$35 for match fees should get you into at least one IDPA and one USPSA match.

Leaving you $610 for a pistol. From that:

$40 for either USPSA or IDPA annual membership.

$10 for buying water for the competitions you go to.

$560 for the shooter you find that happens to have just what you're looking for sitting in his or her gunsafe.

You can possibly save the gunsmith work if you can buy used and translate the $150 for trigger work into a higher gun fund. Steve's book will save you hoards on ammo costs and Brian's book will help you overcome the shooters who only do things a certain way.

There's really no need to buy new if you're in with a shooting group. Observe how members respond to each other; buy from someone who has earned a good reputation. Buy just what you want and be willing to borrow until you find it. Once you're 21 the shooting life becomes much easier.

Leam

[Jack Suber]

So I've been a member of this forum for awhile, but I've never posted, I forgot about it for awhile and came back, but I have a few Questions I'd like to throw out there, I'll be turning 21 in less than thirty days and I think my Ideas are pretty on point, so far, but I was wondering if there's anything else anyone would recommend.

I. Firearm Selection

So, I plan on getting a handgun for concealed carry, I thought for many years, I'd go with a Wilson/Les Bear/RR/Brown etc., I've decided in the last few days that I'm not quite there financially, but I'll wait until I am before I buy, why be half-way satisfied and settle? I plan on a 5'' Single Stack, fixed combat sights, maybe an S&A Mag Well, etc. I was told about RR recently and told they have a surprisingly good line, though they design pistols much like Baer, in that they're very tightly fit. Anything I've over looked, let me know.

II. I was thinking about the type of shooting I'd like to do, or at least start out as, this would be Practical shooting type shooting, etc.

So if anyone has any particular suggestions, let me know.

III. So this is a competitive shooting board, and I've realized now that I've probably come to the correct place to get recommendations on technique, or one of the better venue's available. I've got an issue, that I think will end up having to be addressed in one way or another. I'm right handed and left eye dominant... Which made me think I would train to use the Modified Weaver, but after speaking to other individuals on other forums about this very subject, I was told that I should just shoot shoulders squared, somewhat naturally, as not only is that easier to use, but also, if I'm going to shoot not just for fun, but for also practical training (possibly?) I present a smaller profile with the Weaver, but I also present the opportunity if shot to be hit through multiple organs or it go through the abdomen at a somewhat side angle, etc. Where as when squared with the target, it could pass through and not hit anything vital or at least just one organ.

One thing I saw, and thought about and it's at least worth mentioning here, should I try firing with no Sights? Maybe a natural point of aim would work better? Should I fire with my left eye closed? I've heard shoot with an eye patch, etc.

IV. I'm not new to firearms, but I'll be new to these sports and new to carrying a handgun, etc, so I figure the best way to learn is practical, so for that reason I'm looking and the common consensus is that Marvel Produces the best .22 Conversion kits (I am in college, and I work part time), so buying 200-300 rounds for a day of practice and expecting that to be common place is unrealistic. I was looking at particularly their Unit 2, I've heard that the Unit 1 is more accurate, but I think the benefit of the Unit 2 is I'll stick with the sight picture familiar to me, and a slide that's more familiar as well (Front cocking serrations, etc.)

V. Also, last question/subject, I saw one of the members here is from Columbia and works with USPSA, but where should I go to find matches, or is there anyone here that maybe I could pair up with down the road?

VI. Where should I pick up some training material, I'll buy Brian's book I'm sure but any other recommendations?

Thanks, for your time and reading, I usually don't divide posts into six parts like that, but I had some pretty specific questions, I appreciate any and all input.

Brandon.

Brandon,

Welcome! I am the USPSA Section Coordinator here in South Carolina. I will be happy to help you out in any way possible. I would also suggest that you go check out a match and get a feel for what is going on. It just so happens that Spartanburg Practical Shooting Association is having a 5th Saturday USPSA match this weekend. They are setting up the some of the nationals stages so I anticipate quite a few people there. It would be a great opportunity for you to meet shooters in your area and ask questions. Feel free to zap me an email or give me a call if you have additional questions. take care and I look forward to seeing you on the range.

[High Lord Gomer]

Welcome, Brandon. I'm new here, too, and fairly new to shooting in general.

We are going to the 3-gun match in Greenville this Sunday...

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68997

As long as there are no legal issues preventing it, you're welcome to come out and shoot my M&P45. We can share the rifle and shotgun. Just bring 100 rounds of 7 1/2 shot 3.25 dram eq and 100 rounds of Remington .45 ACP. The rifle is sighted in using my own loads so I'll bring enough of those.

Anybody know if there are any legal reasons he couldn't come and use my guns?

BTW, I'm about yoru size and I've carried several smaller guns. I now carry the M&P45 and it is surprisingly comfortable if carried right.

I, too, initially thought that I needed either an external safety or long, double action gun to carry. Someone much older, wiser, and uglier than me finally beat it into my head that no safety device on a gun can or should take the place of safe gun handling. Properly handled, the gun will not make noise until you cause it to.

[BWT]

Wow, I'm flabbergasted, this loser is working on Saturday, I'll see what I can do about swapping shifts. ( I may not be able to, probably not actually, but I'll let you know.)

As far as legality, I think we're safe as long as you're there, and I have your approval I think we're okay, at 18 you can buy a handgun from another resident of your State, you just can't buy hand gun ammunition until your 21, or an handgun from an FFL Dealer until your 21.

I would love to make it to either event, I think I will heed the advice and go to a match or two and watch before I do. I'll get back to you guys about if I can do it this weekend.

Thanks again for extending to me and all the input I've received.

[leam]

Jack--can you verify the "loan a gun to a 20 year old for the match" question? I'm in NC and don't know any legal beagels on that side of the line.

Brandon--If you're amazed by what you get here, wait till you start shooting with the SC crew. Good shooters and fine people to boot!

Leam

[LChico]

Jack--can you verify the "loan a gun to a 20 year old for the match" question? I'm in NC and don't know any legal beagels on that side of the line.

Brandon--If you're amazed by what you get here, wait till you start shooting with the SC crew. Good shooters and fine people to boot!

Leam

The law was changed this last session and signed by the Governor in early April of 2008, to permit possession of hanguns by persons age 18 and older (instead of 21).

See the legislative track of this bill

Hope that helps.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

If you plan to come to Columbia (MCRC USPSA match the second Saturday), I'd be happy to loan you a 9mm XP & full Production gear & bullets.

Edited August 27, 2008 by LChico

[leam]

If you plan to come to Columbia (MCRC USPSA match the second Saturday), I'd be happy to loan you a 9mm XP & full Production gear & bullets.

Hehe...Brandon, sounds like your first step is to start stocking up on ammo for all the guns people will let you try out!

Leam

[High Lord Gomer]

Brandon... Linda wrote the article I sent you the link to yesterday.

Linda... Bring your open gear, too, as I'll be there to help enter scores.

Leam... Do you come down to Columbia?

[leam]

Leam... Do you come down to Columbia?

Haven't yet but several folks I shoot with routinely do. You're on my agenda!

Leam

[High Lord Gomer]

How about it, Brandon? You going to make it?

[John2A]

I can tell you that Columbia is a great place to start. The guys and gals there are terrific. Linda, Jack and Donnie put on some great stages and are more than willing to get you started in the right direction.

Have patience, fun and be safe then soon enough you can shoot as fast as you can see.

John Lovell

[leam]

Leam... Do you come down to Columbia?

As long as things aren't flooded, I think the crew I ride with is heading to Spartanburg Saturday. It will be my first with the 1911 so I'm looking to score the "Lowest Single Stack" if not "Lowest Overall".

Leam

[BWT]

We'll see, I'll be contacting the last option today. I'm going to certainly try. I'm actually looking up directions to take my mom to look for a handgun now.

Dropping by Trader's, Gordon's Specialty Arms, Maybe Dewey's Pawn Shop...

I can't find anything anywhere about Luthi's gun shop, heard good things, but it's not in the yellow pages.

[High Lord Gomer]

I would suggest going by Allen Arms, too.

http://www.allenarms.net/

They rent many different guns and the cost of a rental can go toward the purchase of a similar gun. They even do a $25/day rental where you can try all of their rental equipment.

[BWT]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll be going there with her next. Honestly, today was a day of culmination, my mom had some really bad experiences with her father and guns, and had a lot of bad connotations with them.

I felt really good about getting her out there and letting her hold one. She told me after she was scared. Not like shaking scared, but holding one in her hand it made her anxious. I felt really good. I told her we didn't have to go to another gun store if she didn't feel ready, she said she didn't.

She liked the Kahr 9mm (I don't know the model), I was kind of pushing her towards the 3.5'' 9mm XD, I'd need to get a softer recoil spring, I honestly didn't realize it was that difficult for women to rack the slide.

I talked to the guy, and unfortunately, I won't be able to make it... I'm sorry, I'd still like to go shoot sometime, whether it be at a competition or what not.

Thanks for your time and input,

Brandon.