Unload and Show Clear

[ChrisStock]

I used to catch the ejected round during ULSC using the manner the OP stated, but found with my heavier sprung pistols that it was a disaster waiting to happen. Too much wrestling with the slide to get the proper angle was distracting to me during this critical safety procedure.

Nowadays, I tend to grasp the slide behind the ejection port now and let the round flip out without hitting my hand or anything else. A lot of times the R.O will catch it or deflect it unintentionally, and I recover the round without issue. If I don't see it immediately, I consider it a donation to the brass scroungers while I eyeball my hits as they are being scored.

[BlackSabbath]

What is the big to-do about simply ejecting the round and letting it hit the ground? At the command unload and show clear, that is what I want you to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

As an RO, I grow weary of the fancy machinations, rack back catch in the air what a cool dude i am contortions to get a simple round out of a gun. That and those who absolutely cannot let the round touch the ground so no matter what I do, whatever hand I need to use, I must have that round.

AMEN!

I don't want a round going off like a grenade in my face. I refuse to run shooters that engage in this practice and let them know up front. I've seen out of battery discharges before, and it's not a pretty sight.

[badchad]

I don't want a round going off like a grenade in my face. I refuse to run shooters that engage in this practice and let them know up front. I've seen out of battery discharges before, and it's not a pretty sight.

You would refuse to run every member of the Limited Supersquad?

[scribble]

I don't want a round going off like a grenade in my face. I refuse to run shooters that engage in this practice and let them know up front. I've seen out of battery discharges before, and it's not a pretty sight.

You would refuse to run every member of the Limited Supersquad?

I wanna see someone tell them they can't do it or that they won't RO them if they do that.

[BlackSabbath]

I don't want a round going off like a grenade in my face. I refuse to run shooters that engage in this practice and let them know up front. I've seen out of battery discharges before, and it's not a pretty sight.

You would refuse to run every member of the Limited Supersquad?

As per the rule book a shooter can ask for a different RO, if he wishes.

So, the answer to your question is YES. My safety is more important than running someone no matter who they are.

Hot-dogging on unload and show clear is dangerous and unnecessary.

The safest way to unload a semi is to turn the ejection port down (In the event of an out of battery discharge, the blast would go down towards the ground), smoothly bring the slide back and eject. What's wrong with being safe?

Edited August 13, 2008 by BlackSabbath

[CSEMARTIN]

I wonder if the safest way to unload an auto is to drop the magazine and fire the chambered round into the berm. I've been wondering this for quite awhile.

What do you guys think about this?

[HSMITH]

I wonder if the safest way to unload an auto is to drop the magazine and fire the chambered round into the berm. I've been wondering this for quite awhile.

What do you guys think about this?

That is THE safest way, but will end your day per the current rules.

[BlackSabbath]

I wonder if the safest way to unload an auto is to drop the magazine and fire the chambered round into the berm. I've been wondering this for quite awhile.

What do you guys think about this?

That is THE safest way, but will end your day per the current rules.

Although I see the rationale behind this, HSMITH makes a great point. Additionally, when shooting a 1911 style gun, it's hard on the firearm without the brass to absorb the slide going back into battery.

A simple rule for safety would suffice as we have other rules for the safety of our shooters and ROs.

Edited August 13, 2008 by BlackSabbath

[badchad]

Hot-dogging on unload and show clear is dangerous and unnecessary.

This is the particular technique in question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEDWdYF631w

Is it hot-dogging?

[BlackSabbath]

Hot-dogging on unload and show clear is dangerous and unnecessary.

This is the particular technique in question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEDWdYF631w

Is it hot-dogging?

No, he gently eased the slide back.

I'm talking about yanking the slide back and and catching the round in mid-air.

[badchad]

No, he gently eased the slide back.

I'm talking about yanking the slide back and and catching the round in mid-air.

So Eric Graffel is hot-dogging?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSXHZS-ZWyk

Right now I use the technique Strader uses, and the hand is a lot closer to the ejection port than the way Graffel does it. So the question remains which is safer, and if they are both dangerous, then why are the vast majority of supersquad shooters so reckless? I would imagine they have seen as many out of battery detonations as anyone else.

[BlackSabbath]

No, he gently eased the slide back.

I'm talking about yanking the slide back and and catching the round in mid-air.

So Eric Graffel is hot-dogging?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSXHZS-ZWyk

Right now I use the technique Strader uses, and the hand is a lot closer to the ejection port than the way Graffel does it. So the question remains which is safer, and if they are both dangerous, then why are the vast majority of supersquad shooters so reckless? I would imagine they have seen as many out of battery detonations as anyone else.

Yes, he is.

[jlopez]

This is a very interesting thread. I have not heard of a round detonating at ejection. I will practicing a different method of ejecting that extra round.

[JThompson]

No, he gently eased the slide back.

I'm talking about yanking the slide back and and catching the round in mid-air.

So Eric Graffel is hot-dogging?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSXHZS-ZWyk

Right now I use the technique Strader uses, and the hand is a lot closer to the ejection port than the way Graffel does it. So the question remains which is safer, and if they are both dangerous, then why are the vast majority of supersquad shooters so reckless? I would imagine they have seen as many out of battery detonations as anyone else.

Yes, he is.

I don't think it's hotdog stuff... I think it comes from spending thousands of hours practicing and is used to save time and motion. That's why I do it and there is nobody there to impress. It's not easy to bend over with an open rig with mags sticking out everywhere. As a matter of fact, it's a pain in the ass. It's another reason I love 9mm... I leave the stuff on the range unless it's indoors. In which case I wit til I'm done and remove my rig before going after it.

PS I think it more likely that a round will light jacking the slide slow too. I ain't putting my hand over no port. If you raise the gun high, and rotate port up, when you rack there is little danger of frags.

Edited August 15, 2008 by JThompson

[sirveyr]

Well, which method are we going to use? I want to be cool, so I'll check this thread in a couple of days. (insert popcorn smiley here)

I use the ultra-deadly flip round into air and catch in hand method.

[Gary1911A1]

Like Phil in the video above I do it so slow the round comes out the magazine well.

[EZ Bagger]

I wanna see someone tell them they can't do it or that they won't RO them if they do that.

Not likely you'll have to worry about seeing that happen at a Nationals. That RO would be replaced and/or straightened out pretty quickly.

[Merlin Orr]

I reach under the gun and catch the front of the slide with my thumb and two fingers, rotate the ejection port toward the ground and let the round fall to the ground. The brass rats will have it before I get back to my bag.

As an obversation..IMO saying something is safe or proper because a (fill in the blank ) shooter does it is crap.

The fact that someone can shoot a pistol does not denote common sense, general knowledge or intelligence. Find another argument to put forth......

(insert obligatory smiley)

[badchad]

The fact that someone can shoot a pistol does not denote common sense, general knowledge or intelligence. Find another argument to put forth......

While I’m sure there is some truth to your argument, since this thread started I’ve been keeping tabs on what the various big name shooters do in my various match videos. I don’t think this is an all encompassing list, and I’m not sure if the various shooters use the same technique all the time but here is what I have come up with so far.

Those who put their left hand directly over the ejections port and catch the round with the left hand as they rack the slide back:

Michael Voigt

Rob Leatham

Taren Butler

Those who rack with the left hand but catch with the right hand along side the gun:

Larry Brown

Travis Tomasie

Shannon Smith

Phil Strader

Todd Jerrett

Matt Burkett

Left hand racks slide with port twisted up to left and caught with left hand:

Blake Miguez

Emmanuel Bragg

Those who flip and catch:

Eric Grauffel

Angus Hobdell

Saul Kirsch

Mark Hanish

Estuardo Gomez

Roman Podlesack

Those who let the round drop on the ground:

Dave Sevigny

Julie Golosky

Interestingly in the round dropping group Julie kept the port facing up, and Dave tilted it to the right (I guess this means down) with the top of the port facing in the direction of the RO.

So I will admit that just because a person can shoot does not demonstrate they have good sense. However, are you really suggesting that 16/18 of the above shooters, if not 18/18 (based on port placement) are lacking in common sense, general knowledge and intelligence? That seems rather improbable, at least to me.

I haven’t seen a round go off during ejection but watching all the vids, I have to think the flip and catch looks like it would result in the least injury to the shooter and is no worse than the drop method to those around him.

[BIGPBPLAYER]

Don't be fooled, ejector fire does happen! It happened to me and I was not going for the cool points. All of the style points in the world are not worth one malfunction that could lend itself to injury or a DQ for unsafe gun handling. As for picking up the extra rounds, I'm sure we could all use a few extra knee-bends.

FWIW - I was not doing it slowly, I was in the middle of a stage trying to clear a jam. I was lucky and no one was hurt, but my shirt was covered with copper jacket that flew out of the ejection port from the .40 S&W round.

I think the flip and catch should be a rule book must! Clear the pistol slowly and safely. If there is a dought about haveing a AD in that clearing prosses, dont do it and no chance of an accedent! Injury is not worth the single piece of ammo....

[al503]

So I will admit that just because a person can shoot does not demonstrate they have good sense. However, are you really suggesting that 16/18 of the above shooters, if not 18/18 (based on port placement) are lacking in common sense, general knowledge and intelligence? That seems rather improbable, at least to me.

I know plenty of friends/people with common sense, general knowledge and intelligence that do things that are questionable. The examples are all around us.

We all have intelligent friends that may have had one too many and drive home. Why would someone have an affair on their wife, (who has cancer) and have aspirations for the highest position in public office?

[badchad]

I think the flip and catch should be a rule book must! Clear the pistol slowly and safely.

Why? From closely reading this thread it seems there is considerable debate as to whether slower is safer. A few have commented that they have seen detonations with slow extractions. I think we (or at least I) need more information about particular detonations to see if this is a gun related problem, a caliber related problem, a speed related problem, or a gun position related problem, etc.

[SA Friday]

I reach under the gun and catch the front of the slide with my thumb and two fingers, rotate the ejection port toward the ground and let the round fall to the ground. The brass rats will have it before I get back to my bag.

As an obversation..IMO saying something is safe or proper because a (fill in the blank ) shooter does it is crap.

The fact that someone can shoot a pistol does not denote common sense, general knowledge or intelligence. Find another argument to put forth......

(insert obligatory smiley)

That easy...

The arguement that a certain way to unload a gun is unsafe because you have seen it result in an OOB discharge is crap. There are multiple ways to UASC, and everyone of them can cause an OOB if the circumstances are there for it to happen. So, the 1 out of (insert really fricken huge number here) does not constitute a trend. It only constitutes a single result for that single incident. The percentages would have to be sufficient enough to back the arguement that this way or that way is unsafe. They don't... Find another arguement....

Theoretically, based on all of the input from this thread, there is only one way to clear a firearm of a live round in the chamber with 100% guarantee there will not be an OOB discharge, fire the round. Other than that, we can debate until the sun fails and never come to a consensus as to 'the best' way or 'the safest' way to unload and show clear. I've even seen the top round loaded in a mag pop off never being loaded in a gun. I've seen bullets bounce back from steel pepper poppers and leave bruises the size of a softball and frag leave a guy with 4 stitches too, but I don't see anyone screaming, "oh hell no, I'm not ROing this fricken stage" if it has a pepper popper on it, or "hey, maybe we should't be allowed to load rounds in a mag until we are on deck."

Stuff happens, wear eye protection, and unload your gun with the muzzle down range however you see fit.

I was smiling throughout this whole entry.

[sirveyr]

I reach under the gun and catch the front of the slide with my thumb and two fingers, rotate the ejection port toward the ground and let the round fall to the ground. The brass rats will have it before I get back to my bag.

As an obversation..IMO saying something is safe or proper because a (fill in the blank ) shooter does it is crap.

The fact that someone can shoot a pistol does not denote common sense, general knowledge or intelligence. Find another argument to put forth......

(insert obligatory smiley)

That easy...

The arguement that a certain way to unload a gun is unsafe because you have seen it result in an OOB discharge is crap. There are multiple ways to UASC, and everyone of them can cause an OOB if the circumstances are there for it to happen. So, the 1 out of (insert really fricken huge number here) does not constitute a trend. It only constitutes a single result for that single incident. The percentages would have to be sufficient enough to back the arguement that this way or that way is unsafe. They don't... Find another arguement....

Theoretically, based on all of the input from this thread, there is only one way to clear a firearm of a live round in the chamber with 100% guarantee there will not be an OOB discharge, fire the round. Other than that, we can debate until the sun fails and never come to a consensus as to 'the best' way or 'the safest' way to unload and show clear. I've even seen the top round loaded in a mag pop off never being loaded in a gun. I've seen bullets bounce back from steel pepper poppers and leave bruises the size of a softball and frag leave a guy with 4 stitches too, but I don't see anyone screaming, "oh hell no, I'm not ROing this fricken stage" if it has a pepper popper on it, or "hey, maybe we should't be allowed to load rounds in a mag until we are on deck."

Stuff happens, wear eye protection, and unload your gun with the muzzle down range however you see fit.

I was smiling throughout this whole entry.

Amen, Brother!

I can't...no, wait, I can believe that this thread has nearly fifty posts debating how to UASC. Are you kidding me? I love the internet.

PS-

I will still continue to use the ultra-deadly flip round into air and catch in hand method.

Edited August 20, 2008 by sirveyr

[Vagus]

It seems to me that I've seen a thread or two talking about someone getting a detonation from letting a live one hit a rock or casing..

I've seen a thread or two about extractor detonation too..

I am personally more worried about detonations due to someone pulling the trigger of a loaded gun, as that is by far the greatest threat an RO faces.

I've decided that I am not going to RO anyone that has strong feelings one way or the other on this issue.

Edited August 24, 2008 by Vagus