Jake Di Vita Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I remember at L10 nats a few years ago in the dark house, I engaged the last target after the reload without the flashlight because I had programmed a few reference points to index on it. (Shoulder on the wall, aim inside edge of doorway). I can't remember for sure but I'm pretty sure I won the stage because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I don't try anything I have not accomplished 100+ times in training I never try anything in a match that I haven't tried a 100 times in practice Where do you guys get the time/money to shoot 100 times between matches?! I think that a person that does not -Train- only attends the matches Training like most sports makes up the most of the time money spent. & Most shooters do not train I spend close to 60/40 training to event cost & time. I used to spend 75/25 I can also say that I have more experience at lousing than most shooters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 I remember at L10 nats a few years ago in the dark house, I engaged the last target after the reload without the flashlight because I had programmed a few reference points to index on it. (Shoulder on the wall, aim inside edge of doorway).I can't remember for sure but I'm pretty sure I won the stage because of it. Thanks for posting this Jake!! This is the what I'm talking about. Flex, by conservative, I meant safe, cautious, reserved, calculated, deliberate, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Rather than planning on taking "bold" shots at the match, step up your training regimen to include more things that push your comfort level..... and you'll end up seeing less "risky" shots at matches, and more and more opportunities to make shots that you know that you can make, that will seperate you from the masses.Then it becomes less a proposition of trying to be bold in a match (recipe for disaster), as it is just shooting the match at the level that you know you are capable of. + 1 to that. For a local match or national championship, almost always, my goal was to shoot to the top of my current ability. Now and then in unusual or extreme circumstances, I might alter that goal a little bit. But overall, I avoided thinking of "going for it" or "playing it safe." be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 But overall, I avoided thinking of "going for it" or "playing it safe."be Well said. (once again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) I have a pretty good example of this. At Area 6 this year the L10 field was fairly thin, but Dave Sevigny was shooting L10, so the outcome wasn't in doubt. My last stage was Stage 1, the all-steel stage. Now, I loves me some steel, there's something about hit/didn't-hit that just clicks for me better than two sight pictures on a paper target. I'm not saying that I wait for the steel to fall, but I sure do like to watch it fall in my peripheral vision a few shots later. Anyway, for those who weren't there, first a video: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer..._type=&aq=f The first guy shoots it like a human, and then there's Max on the second video. The basic layout is left and right, three P poppers with a star behind, run up to the middle, three USPs on either side, down to the end, two P poppers at far sides and four-and-four USPs. All of the USPs are in intermittent cover, depending on where you are standing in the stage. The important bit is that the right star was about 8 yards farther than the left star, nearly 25 yards away. Most folks (the two videos) shot it right-3P popper, left poppers and star, advance to middle, shoot 6 USPs and right star, advance to end, finish course. However, I love steel, and I'm more confident on a 20yd star than I am on a 20yd array of paper. So shooting limited 10, I took the right star from the initial point, adding 8-10 yards, then the left point, then stop in the middle for 6 UPSs and 2 side P Poppers, then up to the front to finish 8 USPs. The upshot is that I managed to send Dave S. to 87% on that stage, whereas he sent me to 81% for then entire match. Was it bold? Yes. Was it stupid? Probably. I never went to slide lock, but I was at an empty mag three times (right star, middle, end) so it was a close thing. But taking the star at the right and saving myself a standing reload made the match for me. Dave is an incredible shooter, and it feels great to meet him head on, at least for 39.71 seconds. I made some hairy shots, shooting at hand-sized USP heads from 15 yards. Do I think I made the right choice? On that stage, yes. I knew that I could shoot steel much better than I can shoot anything else, and the standing reload had to be avoided if possible. Would I have made that choice if I was a serious contender for first? Probably not. Another two misses would have caused the reload, and I had no reason to think, based on my limited ability, that my method was really going to be faster. The big boys can break it down split by split and reload by reload, but I don't have that information to that level of accuracy yet. Fun, though. H. Edited July 31, 2008 by Houngan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 But overall, I avoided thinking of "going for it" or "playing it safe."be Well said. (once again) That is ..The...best non thought of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Not relally MY shot but I did tell him to take it and well here it is: I was teaching at a sniper school and we had a ballon exercise going on for the students. They had to shoot the color and type of baloon told to them by the instructor. Seems easy but we loaded up this backer area out at 100 yards with a quadrazillion balloons so it forced guys to work as teams and communicate better. Guy says to me "Hey my balloon fell on the ground before I shot it." I say ( withhout thinking): "Well then can you see it?" Shooter: "Yes" Me: "Then stop complaining and shoot it." He shoots it and instantly EVERY balloon on the backer disappears. All popped. WTF? The balloon the guy shot on the ground was in front of a rock. The rock fragmented and showered the backer with frag which popped every balloon on it. Damm I have to start listening to that voice in my head that tries to stop me from doing things like this. But it was pretty funny to see the reaction of the head instructor when he looked up. I then had to run downrange and blow up 50 quadrazillion balloons. Not fun. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 This question reminds me of something that happened at my first ITRC. Doc and me were each presented with a very challenging "bonus" target at the end of a mile and a half long stage. There was one optional target for the long range shooter, Doc and another one for the carbine guy, me. The wind was blowing enough to give us a decent excuse for passing on the targets. We later found out that most teams had taken a pass. When the RO explained the deal, "one shot, plus 250 points if you hit, minus 250 points if you miss", we both looked at each other and said in unison, "We came here to shoot!". Winning is important to me. It's something I can do to prove to myself that I actually can get motivated and work toward a goal. Most of you who have read my posts probably realize that I'm fairly detached about life. Wanting to win helps me stay connected. Now having said that, winning for the sake of winning, is not something that interests me. What I enjoy is a winning performance. I can also win by doing something that is a stretch for me or something out of the ordinary. I have come to believe that you are either born bold or you ain't. There is no shame in it either way. Have you ever talked to someone about why you take risks? If they also have the boldness gene, they smile and nod and they get this misty far away look sometimes. Sometimes folks with out the gene just look at you like your dumb. Winning is only winning, because there is a chance of losing. If I increase the chances of losing by doing something kinda "out there", the win for me is better, sweeter. Razor's edge. I've got two walls of shooting trophies in the gun room. I can live my life "been there, done that" or I can live my life "Here, Now, Doing". There are no trophies on the wall for the times I've lived large and lost. Those I carry with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 This question reminds me of something that happened at my first ITRC. Doc and me were each presented with a very challenging "bonus" target at the end of a mile and a half long stage. There was one optional target for the long range shooter, Doc and another one for the carbine guy, me. The wind was blowing enough to give us a decent excuse for passing on the targets. We later found out that most teams had taken a pass. When the RO explained the deal, "one shot, plus 250 points if you hit, minus 250 points if you miss", we both looked at each other and said in unison, "We came here to shoot!". Winning is important to me. It's something I can do to prove to myself that I actually can get motivated and work toward a goal. Most of you who have read my posts probably realize that I'm fairly detached about life. Wanting to win helps me stay connected. Now having said that, winning for the sake of winning, is not something that interests me. What I enjoy is a winning performance. I can also win by doing something that is a stretch for me or something out of the ordinary. I have come to believe that you are either born bold or you ain't. There is no shame in it either way. Have you ever talked to someone about why you take risks? If they also have the boldness gene, they smile and nod and they get this misty far away look sometimes. Sometimes folks with out the gene just look at you like your dumb. Winning is only winning, because there is a chance of losing. If I increase the chances of losing by doing something kinda "out there", the win for me is better, sweeter. Razor's edge. I've got two walls of shooting trophies in the gun room. I can live my life "been there, done that" or I can live my life "Here, Now, Doing". There are no trophies on the wall for the times I've lived large and lost. Those I carry with me. For me - those mean more than most of the victories. Nice post Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Yup nice post, Sam. I like that. Let me switch gears for a second... -------------------- The examples that come to mind for me that might be considered bold...weren't. (in my mind) I remember a stage where the three best Open gun shooters in Ohio failed to get back to a drop-turner in time after trying to squeeze a bunch of target in between the activator and the DT. It might have seemed bold for me to then go after that with my iron sighted tupperware, but it wasn't bold in my mind. I had figured out what I needed to see to make it happen. I knew it was within my abilities that day. I then decided that I'd accomplish it. Bold...in my mind...is showing up and not feeling confident...yet pushing beyond my abilities anyway, just because I have "expectations" about my shooting. Hmmm...maybe bold isn't the right word there (but Bassham tells use not to call ourselves stupid lol ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Jake and Flex, good to hear from both of you! You guys have helped to shape my mental game more than you know. Does this define Boldness? A singleminded commitment to action with a total lack of concern over outcomes, results, or consequences. Think of a time when someone backed you into a corner and forced you to fight. (Either physically or emotionally, it probably doesn't matter which.) There is this eerie calm that says, "I didn't choose this situation, but I fully accept it." From that acceptance, leaps boldness, if indeed, boldness is in your original make-up. To put it into a shooting match context, "commit to doing what I know I'm capable of and hold nothing back for fear of losing." The trick is in really knowing the knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I don't know I'd match that up with boldness, but I like it. That seems more like trusting and/or accepting. (which is positive) Bold...for me...is more like fully expecting to get bucked off, but climbing on anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I think your approach to horsemanship fits the definition of boldness, Flex. Bold...for me...is more like fully expecting to get bucked off, -Total lack of concern over outcome. but climbing on anyway. -singleminded commitment to action Never was a hoss that couldn't be rode. Never was a cowboy that couldn't be throwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 This is the best thread I've read in years. It defines both the shooter, and the competitor, and the mind set. And every post is a window into the person. Awesome J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Yes. Sweet thread guys... I esp liked Sam's post..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I think Sam and I have been trying to bat words around for years now...trying to get them to mate up with our thoughts. Sometimes the words fall short, but the thoughts sure are good exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 A singleminded commitment to action with a total lack of concern over outcomes, results, or consequences. I like that a lot. "commit to doing what I know I'm capable of and hold nothing back for fear of losing." For me, I'd change that last part to not only having no fear of losing, but being willing to lose to give myself a chance to win. The day I shoot a match and take it easy on the last stage to "secure" 2nd is the last day I will ever compete in practical shooting. Bold...for me...is more like fully expecting to get bucked off, but climbing on anyway. I would define that more as being reckless than bold. One is not caring about the outcome, the other is not holding anything back. From my definition there it may seem like they are the same things, but they have substantial different meanings to me. I am concerned with the outcome. I want to win and perform well at every match (or anything else) that I attend. That's the driving purpose for practice for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 It kind of depends on my mood but we have this one prop. It's a port with a swinging door. Most people would open the door with their off hand and lean against the open door and complete their targets through the port. I on the other hand have to get creative. I can generally get 6 shots off before it loses momentum from me throwing it open to get shots in, sometimes two quick ones in between the time it covers the port and is open long enough for a shot. I've done this maybe a half dozen times and I've never "chopped wood" like people think I might. I even have a video that was taken of me while doing this. Unfortunately this specific prop has been disabled.. until I can put it back into use again. If I think I can make a certain kind of shot, I'll try it since I'm usually shooting against myself or one or two other people when shooting my 6 gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Dan Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Bold doesn't work out well for me at the start. Experience will help, but I usually need a stage or two to "warm up", and gain momentum. When I start out bold my consistency suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 I did something bold today, but it might be a while until I can talk about it. It started out OK, but the thought of it is making things worse and worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Elaboration forthcoming, I assume? This is an interesting one for me to watch due to my personal shooting history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 I did something bold today, but it might be a while until I can talk about it. We're all waiting........ I can't wait to hear this!!!! This ought to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I still can't really put words to it. I struggled to put this together. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69177 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) I did something bold today, but it might be a while until I can talk about it. It started out OK, but the thought of it is making things worse and worse. I was there and witnessed the whole thing. I wanted no part of it I think this is the first time I have ever seen Flex not finish a beer As far as being bold while shooting I was this weekend. We had a stage where a fault line was placed on the ground and another up in the air about knee height. It was a copper tunnel type fault line where you received a procedural if you knocked it over. There were targets tucked around the wall so you had to lean way out there to get them. Anyways I ran into the last position alittle hard and engaged the first 2 targets and leaning to get the third on one leg and only get one shot off because I'm off balance. So I'm about to to knock over the fault line so I jump over it while shooting my last shot. Cleared the fault line and got my hit. It wasn't planned but it worked. Flyin Edited August 4, 2008 by Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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