Would it be worth it?

[Bird_Dog0347]

So I have been shooting limited for about 2 years, and IDPA for a year before that. Since I was a little kid I have been shooting shotguns, and I always find myself focusing on the target as if I were shooting a shotgun. I am getting tired of sucking because I cannot keep my focus on the front sight, so I am thinking open might be better for me. I currently have a SVI sight tracker in .40, and I would not want to get rid of it, I never plan to sell it. I don't want to drop $2-5k on an open gun until I know if I like it and plan to go that route or not, and would not be able to for another year or so.

I have been thinking I could get a barrel fitted (with ports) for my sight tracker in 9mm or .38, swap out the breach face, extractor, ejector, and add a Dr. sight to it (with the mounting plate for the Bomar cut) and give it a shot. I would have 2 guns in one this way, and the cost to do it would be close to like a used glock open gun. For the same money, I think I would prefer to shoot my SV. If I like it enough to continue in open and pretty much move to it exclusively, then I would have a dedicated open gun built. I know it would not be ideal for an open gun, but I am only a C shooter anyways and don't expect to tear it up even in open so I think it would be a pretty good place to start.

Thoughts?

[philg80]

Option 1-Borrow someone elses Opent gun in a match. Open guys usually love letting others try the darkside to see what they are "missing" in the other divisions. Depending on your holster all it may envolve is reimbursing the other guy for ammo.

Option 2-Build a complete upper for your SVI. Your limited gun works and you don't want to affect that so have a gunsmith build an upper and buy some mags. Two guns for the price of one and if you don't like it then you can put in a safe or sell it and still not get hurt.

Option 3-Buy used or an "off style" gun. Para, CZ, Tanfoglio, or Glocks. Likely to be the same amount of money you would spend on an upper for your SVI.

Hope this helps. Just my opinion though.

[Jake Di Vita]

If you want to go open, your best bet is to do it right from the start.

Making compromises with your equipment is not the place to save money....trust me.

[G-ManBart]

+1 for borrowing an Open gun for a couple of matches. Lots of folks have backup guns and would be more than willing to let you give them a try. R,

[Jeff686]

If you want to go open, your best bet is to do it right from the start.

Making compromises with your equipment is not the place to save money....trust me.

Oh, I hear this all the time. Usually from the same group of guys that spent another $5k to save 3 more ounces on their racing bicycles.

Frankly, it scares away a lot of potential shooters that could become life members.

I made B-Class with a cheap Chinese 1911, some $15 mags, and a used safariland rig that cost $30. Every week I beat the snot out of people with $6000 guns and gear. Yea, I my gun doesn't feed SWC, so I use RN. I tune my mags with a pair of plyers.

I know it is no fun to have a jam-o-matic, but you can make comprimises and still get a good gun.

I say all this with a smile and a grin, in a friendly way (since you can't hear or see me).

I think you should borrow an open gun and try it out, more than once. Ask around at your local match. A lot of people have spares. If you like it, then consider how to get there.

There is a big difference between the J-Point and C-More. If you can, try both before you buy. It seems a little expensive to pay for a J-Point type sight, just to try open.

I just saw a 38 super top-end for sale here last week. I can't find the post, but it had everything but a barrel link and a couple 140mm mags. Oh, and personally, I wouldn't hesitate to drill and tap my frame for a scope mount. If you don't like open, you can install some nice button-head screws in the holes.

If you want to switch back-n-forth weekly, the j-point type sight is probably best.

P.S. Do you like Glocks? I think there's an open glock with all the trimmings for under $1000 for sale right now!

[Bird_Dog0347]

If you want to go open, your best bet is to do it right from the start.

Making compromises with your equipment is not the place to save money....trust me.

Oh, I hear this all the time. Usually from the same group of guys that spent another $5k to save 3 more ounces on their racing bicycles.

Frankly, it scares away a lot of potential shooters that could become life members.

I made B-Class with a cheap Chinese 1911, some $15 mags, and a used safariland rig that cost $30. Every week I beat the snot out of people with $6000 guns and gear. Yea, I my gun doesn't feed SWC, so I use RN. I tune my mags with a pair of plyers.

I know it is no fun to have a jam-o-matic, but you can make comprimises and still get a good gun.

I say all this with a smile and a grin, in a friendly way (since you can't hear or see me).

I think you should borrow an open gun and try it out, more than once. Ask around at your local match. A lot of people have spares. If you like it, then consider how to get there.

There is a big difference between the J-Point and C-More. If you can, try both before you buy. It seems a little expensive to pay for a J-Point type sight, just to try open.

I just saw a 38 super top-end for sale here last week. I can't find the post, but it had everything but a barrel link and a couple 140mm mags. Oh, and personally, I wouldn't hesitate to drill and tap my frame for a scope mount. If you don't like open, you can install some nice button-head screws in the holes.

If you want to switch back-n-forth weekly, the j-point type sight is probably best.

P.S. Do you like Glocks? I think there's an open glock with all the trimmings for under $1000 for sale right now!

I don't dislike Glocks, but I LOVE my SV. I would prefer to stick with the S_I platform.

As for "doing it right" the first time... I don't understand how this option is really that bad? First off, the gun is a factory SV, and the only things I would have to change are the sight, and the barrel (plus extractor, etc.). The only thing about it that would be "wrong for open" is the fact that it is a full length dust cover and it might be a little heavy. I have shot open guns before, just not for a whole match. I do know that I like them, but I am not the biggest fan of the cmore, maybe I could get used to it though. With the Jpoint/Doctor style sight, I would not have to worry about extraction problems, etc. As for putting a whole new top end on it, that would cost a lot more and give me really no advantage over having the barrel fitted (by SV) and I don't intend to drill the frame. So... other than it being a little heavy (and maybe you guys don't like the jpoint style sight), what is the downside to my plan?

[Jeff686]

No downside, as long as the J-Point is for you. I tried a Cmore, Jpoint, and now an aimpoint. I still haven't decided. Also, consider that switching between open and irons might be easier with a j-point, the index is about the same.

Being a tight-wad, I'd price out all the stuff and know the exact cost. Then, if a used top-end goes on sale, you can make an informed judgement about the price.

I'd guess that you could save a lot of money buying a used 'package' from someone. I REALLY wish I could find that one I saw last week, it would be perfect for you. It came with a c-more and mount, which you could sell and put toward a j-point.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Jeff686

[BritinUSA]

I don't see any down side. I would suggest this though; Rather than get a new slide/barrel etc. Why not just start with a Docter/Bomar mounting plate ? Then just shoot the gun with the exact same ammo/setup as you have now. The only difference is you now have a dot instead of iron-sight. This will tell you if the dot is the right way to go for what you want. If it is then proceed with the rest of your plan. If it does not work for you then you can sell the Docter/Bomar mount and be back to where you are now.

I think using the same frame etc. is a good idea if you decide to proceed. We can't all afford complete guns/setup so all things considered I personally think your plan is reasonable.

[Bird_Dog0347]

I don't see any down side. I would suggest this though; Rather than get a new slide/barrel etc. Why not just start with a Docter/Bomar mounting plate ? Then just shoot the gun with the exact same ammo/setup as you have now. The only difference is you now have a dot instead of iron-sight. This will tell you if the dot is the right way to go for what you want. If it is then proceed with the rest of your plan. If it does not work for you then you can sell the Docter/Bomar mount and be back to where you are now.

I think using the same frame etc. is a good idea if you decide to proceed. We can't all afford complete guns/setup so all things considered I personally think your plan is reasonable.

I too thought about just putting the dot on first, I may end up trying that. And like I said, if I do really like it, I will have a dedicated open gun built but I just don't have that kinda money right now.

[Thomas Moore]

An Open 9mm is cheaper to shoot than a Limited 40.

[BritinUSA]

...but I just don't have that kinda money right now.

... which is why your idea is a good one.

[UW Mitch]

"worth it" - that's totally a personal decision but hopefully we can help provide you some things to think about. I don't have much money, but I saved for a while and sold off a lot of things to afford my JPL Open Gun (my first custom gun). I just shot my first match with it, came in 8th out of 8 in Open. Was it worth it? TOTALLY!

Try some friends open guns out. Maybe you've got a buddy who'd even swap guns with you for a match. If you decide to play open, I'd agree with Jake - do it right from the start. Otherwise you could end up with a lot of frustrations and regrets. Save up for it!

~Mitch

[Bird_Dog0347]

"worth it" - that's totally a personal decision but hopefully we can help provide you some things to think about. I don't have much money, but I saved for a while and sold off a lot of things to afford my JPL Open Gun (my first custom gun). I just shot my first match with it, came in 8th out of 8 in Open. Was it worth it? TOTALLY!

Try some friends open guns out. Maybe you've got a buddy who'd even swap guns with you for a match. If you decide to play open, I'd agree with Jake - do it right from the start. Otherwise you could end up with a lot of frustrations and regrets. Save up for it!

~Mitch

Once again... where is my plan not "right"... I keep hearing "do it right from the start" but no one is saying what "right" is. If I did what I am talking about, I would have a factory SV open gun... please show me where someone has said that is not "right"? Are you saying that I would be handicapped because of the weight of the gun? Or the sight, and remember I would still shoot limited some too so the lower sight would make it easier for me to switch back and forth.

[Jake Di Vita]

Go for it bud.

[R.Elliott]

Once again... where is my plan not "right"... I keep hearing "do it right from the start" but no one is saying what "right" is. If I did what I am talking about, I would have a factory SV open gun... please show me where someone has said that is not "right"? Are you saying that I would be handicapped because of the weight of the gun? Or the sight, and remember I would still shoot limited some too so the lower sight would make it easier for me to switch back and forth.

The one concern might be the breach face. If you are going to convert to Open and leave it that way for a while it would probably be fine. But if you plan to switch back and forth between Open and Limited you could possibly run into a problem. Those breach faces should be lock-tighted in (most of the guys I know use the green stuff) and I think if you are constantly heating and removing and replacing and removing and.....

Well you may end up loosening things up in there such that the breach face will just be working itself loose on you all the time. You might be further ahead to just set up a dedicated top end and switch back and forth that way. Perhaps you could find a good second hand unit (maybe someone switching from Open to Standard??)that would suit your price point.

[WDB]

The bottom line is this, the only person that can answer "worth" is YOU. The gun will be accurate and will go bang when you pull the trigger if your smith is good, so I'm with you as far as "the right way". I did the same thing cause I wanted to play in open. Didn't have the thousands of $ to spend so I went even cheaper and stayed with the same caliber as my limited setup, .40. It shoots just as flat and fast as the 9's and 38's if I do my part. I would however opt for a second top end as opposed to fitting a second barrel.

[Bird_Dog0347]

The one concern might be the breach face. If you are going to convert to Open and leave it that way for a while it would probably be fine. But if you plan to switch back and forth between Open and Limited you could possibly run into a problem. Those breach faces should be lock-tighted in (most of the guys I know use the green stuff) and I think if you are constantly heating and removing and replacing and removing and.....

Well you may end up loosening things up in there such that the breach face will just be working itself loose on you all the time. You might be further ahead to just set up a dedicated top end and switch back and forth that way. Perhaps you could find a good second hand unit (maybe someone switching from Open to Standard??)that would suit your price point.

Ok, this makes more sense, but I really would not be swapping much. Maybe once a year, sticking with open for a year, then back to limited the next year... etc. At that point I could most likely buy a new SV open gun, which I would prefer over a used STI or Para.

[Flexmoney]

We have a young Master class shooter that shoots with us. He is a target focused shooter...through and through. He happens to have a fantastic index...he points the gun at the target very well. But, I don't know of any shooter that asks for more doubles (read that as MIKES folks).

Shooters with a target focus have 3 choices in our world.

1. Embrace the suck.

2. Shoot Open.

3. Get their head wrapped around using that front sight.

Sucking...sucks. Open is fun, but relatively expensive (but ya still haven't learned to shoot the front sight = hide from the suck).

Using the front sight... Takes a little effort. Some dry-fire training will do it. The biggest hurdle is often the mindset that comes along with... The shooter is caught up on some other crap (speed focus) and has not made vision the #1 priority.

[38superman]

Flex touched on my answer before I could type it.

You obviously love your SVI and you don't want to part with it,... so don't.

I wouldn't spend the time, money and sweat to transform it into an open gun.

The real answer here is to correct the sight focus issue.

You have identified the problem.

That's half the battle.

It's a problem with shooter.

Why try to solve a problem with the shooter by fixing the hardware?

Fix the shooter.

Tony

[philg80]

No one is telling you your way wouldn't work, but you will have less headaches in the long term if you have a top end and not mess with the finer workings of a perfectly good firearm. You will get the same trigger and basic features you love, but have the dot and bigger mags. Would take less than a minute to switch back and forth. If in the future you decide you want a complete second gun then you would have half the gun already. There is more work than just sliding a barrel into your limited gun and putting a dot on top to start playing in open. Just my humble opinion, but do what fits YOU and your budget.

[R.Elliott]

The vision thing is a great point; if it's a visual discipline issue it's a lot cheaper to practice some drills than it is to retro-fit your gun. But how old are your eyes? If you are at or past that point where your eyes can no longer rack focus, or even focus at ALL on something close, you may be looking at making the switch to Open permanently anyway. This happened to me. After switching from Open to Standard (Limited) and selling all of my stuff, I found my eyes were spiraling down faster than I could get new prescriptions written. Finally, I could no longer see the sights well enough to call a shot and still define the edges of the target, so I had to switch back.

That was a costly lesson to learn.

[lneel]

Nick,

You can shoot one of my open guns to get a feel for it. I think you will find you will want a dedicated unit when you get the feel. I have 2 IDPA SV's, 2 Limited SV's and 2 STI Open Guns just so I am not always swapping parts. If you make your current LTD gun a dual purpose unit you will probably have holes drilled in the side for a C-More mount (ugly). If you just look around and see how many people shoot a J-Point or Docter sight you won't find too many. I think there is a reason though I have never used one for more than 5 minutes. I just didn't like it as much as the C-More setup.

Luke, come to the Darkside...screw that front sight, you don't see it anyway!

Lee

[Bird_Dog0347]

Lee, I will take you up on that offer. I too am sure that I would eventually want to get a dedicated open gun... eventually. Let me know what the ammo cost will be, and if you have enough mags for me to shoot it and I would love to give it a shot. (pun intended)

[Phudd]

I started shooting USPSA a little over a year ago at 41. I honestly don't think my eyes will ever let me get past C class Limited. I have tried several different prescriptions. The only one that keeps me focused on the front sight blurs even the closest target badly. I do best with my normal glasses and deal with the suck.

I just finished building an open gun. I have yet to shoot a match with it but after running 300 rnds through it this weekend, I have really high hopes. I don't even care if it speeds me up so long as I can get back to shooting clean and calling shots.

[Bird_Dog0347]

Yeah, I cannot use age as an excuse, I am 28 with perfect vision. My problem is LOFT (lack of @#$*%& talent).