Glock Pearce "Grip Enhancer"

[Graham Smith]

The front part of the grip on some current (and some older) Glocks has a half-moon cutout. Note: I'm referring to the front of the grip here, not the rear cutout where a plug is made to go. Pearce makes a base plate that will, "replace the magazine base plate and retain all other factory components. They do not alter the capacity of the magazine and provide better comfort by filling the semi-circular recess in the lower front area of the grip body."

I have a G35 that I will be using in Production and would like to know if these are legal or not. I cannot seem to find anything that directly applies to this in the rules or in this or the USPSA forums.

[LPatterson]

Not a definitive answer but it is allowed for GSSF matches which require every thing be stock Glock. The question would be, will it fit in the box with the magazine inserted?

[Graham Smith]

The question would be, will it fit in the box with the magazine inserted?

Yes. They do not add any length to the magazine.

[MI_Packer]

The front part of the grip on some current (and some older) Glocks has a half-moon cutout. Note: I'm referring to the front of the grip here, not the rear cutout where a plug is made to go. Pearce makes a base plate that will, "replace the magazine base plate and retain all other factory components. They do not alter the capacity of the magazine and provide better comfort by filling the semi-circular recess in the lower front area of the grip body."

I have a G35 that I will be using in Production and would like to know if these are legal or not. I cannot seem to find anything that directly applies to this in the rules or in this or the USPSA forums.

Appendix D4 Special Conditions - "Unless specifically authorized above, modifications are prohibited."

I'm not sure that D4 item 7 is relevant (box dimensions) because a modification that is not specifically allowed has been made so it is moot whether or not it fits in the box.

D4 item 22 "External modifications or features such as weights or devices to control or reduce recoil (such as, but not limited to, thumb rests or components which could be used as such)." I think this statement applies as a prohibited modification and the base plate changes the grip of the pistol, thus help to control recoil.

Appendix E4 talks about modifying the grip and the base plate is not mentioned as an allowed modification.

With that in mind, I do not think the pearce base plate is legal. I don't think this is what you wanted to hear, but you did ask for opinions.

Edited June 18, 2008 by MI_Packer

[Buzzmeister]

With the recent NROI ruling concering the grip plug for Glocks, and that the ruling distinguishes between plug types that add/don't add to the gun profile (or silhouette , if you will), you might want to submit this question to them for their consideration.

[BayouSlide]

In general, as a rule of thumb, any visible mods in USPSA Production that aren't specifically permitted are prohibited. I would be extremely surprised if what is essentially a baseplate mod of this type would be permitted under current Production rules.

[00bullitt]

I sent an email to NROI today to get a ruling. I have a few friends that use these. Our conclusion is that they are fine. But before we go to Nationals and find out the hard way......figured it was better to get JA's blessing first.

I'll post reply when I get it.

[00bullitt]

This is the reply from Amidon about the legality of these basepads.

"As long as the gun with an empty magazine fits into the box and it doesn’t weigh over 2 ounces from manufacturers weight, they are good to go."

[brboyer]

This is the reply from Amidon about the legality of these basepads.

"As long as the gun with an empty magazine fits into the box and it doesn’t weigh over 2 ounces from manufacturers weight, they are good to go."

Could you post the actual question posed to Amidon?

[Singlestack]

Sounds like a real good way to pinch the crap out of your little finger to me.

[00bullitt]

This was my simple email:

Are these basepads legal for use in production?

http://www.pearcegrip.com/glockge.htm#Glock_Model19F

Thank you for your time.

Tod Litt

[00bullitt]

If anyone would like the email I sent and received just send me an email through the site and I will forward it to you.

[Flexmoney]

I'd say those are illegal.

"This component adds approximately 1/4 inch of gripping surface."

"They provide an easier means of manually extracting the magazines."

[Flexmoney]

Which would be consistent with:

NROI Rulings

Title: Aftermarket magazines in Production Division

Created: 8/22/07

Updated: 9/04/07

Effective: 9/04/07

Rule number: US Appendix D9 i

Applies to: Pistol

Ruling authority: John Amidon

Status: Released

Question

Can I use any after market magazine in my gun for Production? Also, may I grind off part of the base pad on my S&W M&P?

Ruling

After market magazines are allowed in Production, as long as they are dimensionally the same as the original magazine for that model gun? In other words, you may not use a Glock 33 round mag in an approved Glock gun, regardless of only loading 10 rounds in it. Grinding on the magazine base pad, would be an external modification and not allowed, the magazine when inserted, is a functioning part of the gun and the base pad is external.

[chemepharmd]

If the shooters plan to use these at Nationals, can JA's email be used to validate them as legal, or is there a superceding authority? Just figured it wouldn't hurt to ask because it sounds like several shooters may be planning to use them based on his emailed reply stating that they are legal.

[Flexmoney]

The rule book and the official rulings are the authority. John (as Range Master) may make a call, but it could be arbitrated.

[chemepharmd]

The rule book and the official rulings are the authority. John (as Range Master) may make a call, but it could be arbitrated.

Thanks - just curious since it looks like this may come up.

[Flexmoney]

FYI (this is the un-official word)

I traded some emails with Amidon on this. He then asked the BOD for their input.

These aren't going to be allowed. Here is the meat and potatoes:

Aftermarket mags and pads must meet the original OEM standards, pads are considered external and no modifications to them are allowed.

John

and:

...thus the box will not be used for measuring anything but the size of the gun with a mag inserted, all other rules to still apply.

John was basing his previous opinion on what he thought was the direction we were heading. But, they took a closer look:

...the BOD had decided not to sunset a couple of previous ruling and are staying with the 2007 and 2005 rulings addressing aftermarket, external, etc. It is unfortunate that my ruling was based on what was to be, but will not be.

[00bullitt]

Flex beat me to it,but Amidon sent me a follow up email this afternoon explaining that his original decision to allow them would not stand and the BOD reevaluated them and decided they would not be allowed for reasons in Flex's previous post.

[chemepharmd]

This is one of the many ways this forum can be helpful. The topic was brought up, reviewed, and a decision was made, all away from the range. Now it hopefully won't be a distraction (and possible disappointment) at a major match (i.e. nationals), at least to anyone who reviews this.

[Flexmoney]

Good point.

We raised some awareness..through open discussion.

In fact, what we also did was to shine a light on what bigger ramifications there might be. (I won't go into any of that, but I certainly saw a can of worms beyond just these base pads.)

[Graham Smith]

What I find odd in all of this is how easy it is to get tangled up in nit-picking details. These base pads are, for all intents and purposes, identical to factory. They offer no competitive advantage over stock. The only person likely to get anything out of them is a person with a large hand whose little finger rubs against the half-moon cutout.

The really ironic thing is that the half-moon cutout is a left over design feature from the non-drop free mag days, to help you grasp the mag front to back if it doesn't drop. Many newer Glock models have done away with that and it only exists in older Glock designs like the G17/G22/G34/G35. I rather expect it will disappear as well one day.

Anyway, they seem like something that common sense would say would be allowed. But rules and common sense are often at odds because as soon as some seemingly trivial difference is allowed a bunch of people will start trying to sneak in other things under the same ruling.

Oh, well, that's why it's called a game.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Graham Smith

[Flexmoney]

If they didn't offer an advantage, why would anybody want them?

As you mentioned, they offer a different gripping surface. They offer an advantage in extracting a stuck mag.

[00bullitt]

A friend wanted to use these as a solution to an expensive repair. His grip frame looks akin to Micah's grip frame from last year from too many dry fire reloads. On the rare occasion that he would go to slide lock......he could actually over insert the magazine since the lower lip was ate away and create a time robbing malfunction. He found these basepads to be a solution to his problem and a less expensive repair to replacing the frame.

[Nik Habicht]

A friend wanted to use these as a solution to an expensive repair. His grip frame looks akin to Micah's grip frame from last year from too many dry fire reloads. On the rare occasion that he would go to slide lock......he could actually over insert the magazine since the lower lip was ate away and create a time robbing malfunction. He found these basepads to be a solution to his problem and a less expensive repair to replacing the frame.

But he'd be willing to risk being moved to open for having a modified (worn) frame? That seems penny wise and pound foolish....