How to choose what powder?

[steveknapp]

I bought a reloading manual, but most of the detail is geared towards rifles. Some of it makes sense, and it goes into detail of how power can impact accuracy, and it has in bold what it believes to be the most accurate load of the group.

But it seems I can get reloading data for just about any powder. For example Alliant's web page lists for 115gn FMJ 9mm Luger:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Rec...amp;bulletid=20

There seems to be quite a few options. And reading the powder descriptions doesn't seem to help much.

I've seen lots of recommendations "I use n grains of X", but I'm curious how one comes to that.

Is there a better book that describes the impacts of various powders more specifically for pistol?

Or do you load up a group of each powder and test at the range?

Edited May 5, 2008 by steveknapp

[HSMITH]

Like evaluating a gun, nothing matters to us but hit factor. Points over time, that is the defining factor. Luckily we have the tremendous resource that these forums represent and can hedge our bets by eliminating a good many combinations listed in the manuals and narrowing the choices down to a manageable number.

My basic formula? Take the fastest powders I can get that will do the job and test them head to head. Fast powders typically will shoot softer and with less push on the gun than a slower powder, that allows me to get the gun back on target faster and shoot more points at a higher rate of speed.

With an Open gun I want the load that makes major plus at least 5 power factor points and uses the most powder. I will take those powders and test them head to head. Powder mass increases will often times increase the effectiveness of the compensator and make a more shootable load, exactly why we don't use slow powders in non-Open guns, they have no compensator and by reducing the powder mass we lessen the effect the powder will have on recoil.

That all said, I am absolutely convinced that the quality of the front sight or dot track is THE most important factor in being able to shoot any particular gun as well as you might be able to. I don't care what it feels like anymore, if the worst feeling load of 10 tested provides the highest quality sight track it will be what I use because that quality and predictability in the sight track is what lets me shoot the most points in the least amount of time.

[DonT]

For me personally, I read and research all the powder manufacturers for a specific load, spend countless hours calculating and narrowing my decision, and then go to the only source to buy locally and take whatever he has

Sorry, I don't have an intelligent answer to your question...so I had to be stupid

That's a very good question about how to determine which powder. I don't know. I always just look here on the forum.

[RePete]

First thing that needs to be decided is 'WHAT POWDER IS AVAILABLE IN MY AREA!'

Look at the tables for those powders, buy 2 or 3 different ones and load.

Test fire over a chronography for PF.

Test fire at target to see which one feels good (to you), recoils the way you like and is accurate.

When you've found the powder, buy 5lbs of it.

Burn off the others powders in practice, but not before a match.

Your mileage may vary.

[Joe4d]

You have to look at powder characteristics to help decide what you want to do. 1 burn rate. Fast will generate less recoil and use less powder they will also generate less muzzle flash important in low light matches, but you may run into high pressure issues before you get the velocity you want. Slow powders will give you maximum velocity and more gas for a compensator but you might run out of room in the case before you get what you want. Download a burnrate chart to get a general idea. That way when you head to the store and your choice isnt there you can look at a burn rate chart and get something close and get similar results. Next is metering. This will depend on the powder measure you are using some powders are fine flakes others are larger and will meter better in different measures. next issue is cleanliness is the powder clean enough to finish a match or the number of rounds you generally shoot ? now to acuracy and consitency which I havent found and enormous difference in pistol powders all exceptable burn rate powders tend to produce decent accuracy if the gun is capable of it. after that the last issue is price and availability.

[38superman]

When picking a powder for a self defense load, the criteria is usually to find the powder that produces the highest velocity without excessive pressure.

For competition that maxim is reversed.

We typically look for the fastest powder that can safely make the minimum power factor.

Usually there are several powders with a burn rate that will work for us and those choices are narrowed by experimentation.

The following is a list of the powder characteristics I am looking for

1. Produces excellent accuracy in my gun.

2. Doesn't produce a lot of smoke

3. Doesn't heat up the gun too much

4. Is readily available

5. Isn't horribly expensive

6. Not too temperature sensitive

7. Has a density that fills the case to the proper capacity.*

8. Feel **

* I don't want the case too full so that the loader slings powder when indexing.

I also don't want a load so dense that a double charge wouldn't be obvious.

A double charge should overflow the case.

** Every gun is different with variable tension in the recoil and mainsprings.

An ideal load is sufficient to operate the action of the gun at the right speed.

Some loads will produce a long lazy slide cycle that seems to take forever to recover the sight picture.

Other loads are just too snappy.

Experiment. You will know the right load when you find it.

Tony

Edited May 5, 2008 by 38superman

[dajarrel]

....Experiment. You will know the right load when you find it.

Tony

And when you get the right combination, you'll probably decide to change bullet weights and have to start all over again

dj

[steveknapp]

So for example, I've got some powders for shotshell reloading, American Select and Bullseye, no worries using those (assuming a tested recipe is available) to tinker/try?

See what works, what doesn't. OK

Edited May 5, 2008 by steveknapp

[GW45ACP]

I'd start with checking on what others use as their favorite powders and for what purpose. Here's one thread in the FAQ's

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...avorite+powders

I used to use several different powders for 9mm, 40S&W, 357 Mag, 45ACP, and 5.7x28. Now I generally only load 40, 45, and 5.7 and I've standardized on one powder for all three, but that generally means your are compromising performance on two of the three.

If you are looking for the best performance for several different pistol calibers and purposes, you'll definitely need to do some more reading and research as well as spending a lot of time at the chrono to determine which powders fit your needs.

Edited May 5, 2008 by GW45ACP

[38superman]

So for example, I've got some powders for shotshell reloading, American Select and Bullseye, no worries using those (assuming a tested recipe is available) to tinker/try?

See what works, what doesn't. OK

What caliber(s) are you loading for?

What powders do you have on hand that you would like to use?

What bullet?

Maybe we can steer you in the right direction.

Tls

Edited May 5, 2008 by 38superman

[steveknapp]

I thought I'd start with what I shoot now, 9mm, 115gn FMJ for my gun, and 158gn TMJ +P 38Special for my friends revolver would be next on the list I'd expect. 45ACP once I've got the gear and whatnot down.

I've got Bullseye and American Select on hand now for the shotshells.

To put this in perspective, I'm a NOOB at USPSA. I'm pretty much a NOOB at the range (not as much as I once was), and very much a NOOB at reloading. But I'm enjoying learning and getting better. I don't blame my equipment, I know most of it's me.

I've reloaded shotshells, and they go boom, the clays break with the same infrequency as when I shoot factory ammo.

Edited May 5, 2008 by steveknapp

[38superman]

Steve,

If you are looking for a procedure for evaluating powder and working up a load here is how I do it.

I'm not saying it's the best way, it's just my way.

I pick a bullet then check the reloading manual(s) for the fastest powders that are capable of safely producing the desired velocity.

To get 125 power factor with a 115 bullet you need 1087 fps.

I would look for a powder charge that would give me just over 1100 fps.

I don't have a manual in front of me.

I don't know if its possible to make 1100 fps with Bullseye or American Select without exceeding the max published load.

You'll have to look it up.

Once you decide which powder you want to try, look in the book for the powder charge that should make the velocity you need.

Drop back from that charge by .5 grains and load 50 rounds in groups of 10, increasing the charge by .1 grain in each group of 10.

I refer to these 50 rounds as a "pressure series".

When you go to the range, shoot (2) five shot groups with each of your 10 round lots, starting with the lightest load and working up.

Look for any sign of excessive pressure.

If you don't know what to look for, you shouldn't be doing this.

Do your homework and read up on it.

You will find information on the subject in any decent loading manual.

If you find evidence of excessive pressure, stop. Go no further.

Pick another powder and start over.

As you are shooting record the size of your groups on the target to document the accuracy of the load.

If you don't have a chronograph, buy, beg, borrow or steal one.

As you work your way up through the pressure series, the chrono will tell you when your loads have achieved the desired velocity.

At that point you have your load for that bullet and powder combination.

You also have some documented accuracy data.

Two groups aren't nearly enough to tell you the ultimate accuracy potential of the load.

However, it should be enough to tell you if the load is viable for competition.

If my test load can't produce groups under 2" at 25 yds, I forget about it and move on.

Find another powder and repeat the process.

Once you have two or three valid loads, you can load up a few hundred rounds of each and do some practicing to decide which one works and feels best in your gun.

Tony

[steveknapp]

Tony,

Thanks for the info. Sounds good, interesting, and fun.

For the near term, getting the mechanics down, I'd probably pick up someones fav load and learn the mechanics, then tinker. Seem sane?

I just got "ABC's of Reloading" which looks good at a quick glance.. More about the what's and how's instead of just loads.

[38superman]

Tony,

Thanks for the info. Sounds good, interesting, and fun.

For the near term, getting the mechanics down, I'd probably pick up someones fav load and learn the mechanics, then tinker. Seem sane?

I just got "ABC's of Reloading" which looks good at a quick glance.. More about the what's and how's instead of just loads.

Sounds good ..... with a word of caution.

All guns are different.

Different tolerances in the chamber dimensions, throating, bore. etc.

For that reason someone elses favorite load may be really hot in your gun.

You should still take that load, back it off and work up to it in your gun.

DVC

Tony

[SA Friday]

I would recommend these powders for your 9mm loads; Titegroup, N320, Solo 1000. N320 is expensive but nice. Titegroup is hot burning, but cheap consistant and effective. Solo 1000 takes some getting used to getting it to throw a consistant charge with, but is the best of both worlds, IMO. You really can't go wrong with any of the three.

[steveknapp]

Reloading manual loads typically "Safe"?

My plan is to shoot production, so minor loads are fine. I'm trying to ease into this I guess. Step one is figure out what I need. Step 2 is draw the line on what I'm going to start off with. Step 3 is to make some stuff that's reliable, safe, and goes boom.

[photog]

Steve,

Another factor is the "range talk" factor. When you go to the range and say that you are loading with American Select, everyone is going to give you the blank stare and say "whats that?" Trust me, I'm USING AmerSelct. I then tell them it's right next to Titegroup on the burn rate chart, and is USA made, and very inexpensive and pretty clean and more bulky than Titegroup. The bulkiness is great because a Never Exceed charge nearly fills the case, making a double charge really tough (the bullet won't seat with a double charge). Also American Select uses less powder by weight than Titegroup (180FMJ uses 4.5-4.9gr in .40 compared to 5-6gr of Titegroup), so your powder lasts a little longer.

Honestly I bought AmerSelct because I wanted to reload light 12ga and .45, but it SEEMS to work well in my new .40. I just shot a Bill Drill and was REALLY impressed with the grouping, and was impressed with the grouping at 25 yards from a rest.

But the real point is that powder reviews are ALL anecdotal, because every shooter/gun combo is different. The "perfect powder" is pure internet lore. Stick with the popular stuff from VV, Hodgens, Alliant, Winchester and you'll be fine. At first I was unnerved that nobody knew about AmerSelct, but I'm over it now. I'm just cranking out the ammo and not worrying about it. When I run out of the 8lbs that I bought for $88, I'll think about changing powders, but probably not because it is working well for my 9mm, .40 and .45 (haven't tried the 12ga yet - been to busy with pistols). I bought it from : http://armsandammo.com/prodpage.cfm?SubCatID=523401 but is more now. Still they are pretty cheap and have a great selection of powders. Best thing is they ship powder and primers together on one hazmat tag, saving you shipping and hazmat charges!!