Carlos Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Open is the breeding ground for new equipment...I think anyone who can build a better mouse trap...should get to run it!Jim Jim, those words are the basis of our sport! Well said Jim! +2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Just cuz a man has a Ferrari, doesn't mean he can drive it well. The jerk behind the trigger will always be the determining factor. You can have the fastest mag changes in the world but it doesn't mean crap if you can't get through the stage efficiently. I. E. hitting every target every time very fast. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Just cuz a man has a Ferrari, doesn't mean he can drive it well. The jerk behind the trigger will always be the determining factor. You can have the fastest mag changes in the world but it doesn't mean crap if you can't get through the stage efficiently. I. E. hitting every target every time very fast.Nick +1 Until Taran, Burkett, and the other top dogs are beaten by someone with a Saiga, strictly because they used a Saiga they will probably keep useing the Benelli... Infact the only time Burkett mentioned the Saiga was when some Russian at an international event beat him or came close in shotgun with Russian "20" rounders.. But anyway it's new for 3gun, it's cool as hell, and I'm thinking of buying one !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bore Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Are we rehashing the Saiga AGAIN???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Whether or not it's good enough to beat the top dogs (or there's simply a lack of anyone shooting them good enough to do so), I think the Saiga-12 is more appealing to a lot of middle of the pack shooters for Open because it's easier to become proficient with changing mags than using tec-loaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Whether or not it's good enough to beat the top dogs (or there's simply a lack of anyone shooting them good enough to do so), I think the Saiga-12 is more appealing to a lot of middle of the pack shooters for Open because it's easier to become proficient with changing mags than using tec-loaders. My thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I love my Saiga right now it is undergoing upgrades to make it more competitive, some one said it is the man behind the trigger, I disagree I owe my success to my Saiga. Here is the deal I shoot slow, in IDPA I am about last or nearly last in our gun club tactical shotgun match I usually come in top or with in the top 4, depending on how many fellow Saiga shooters show up. Yes the Saiga in the hands of some of the top shooters would force the rest to get on the band wagon it will only take one, if your sitting on the fence you might want to jump on to the band wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onyx Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I would put all my shotgun shells in one basket to say that ......IF ....and thats a big if. Saiga was being used by all the top dogs. BENELLI would just put a drop magazine under their gun and we all know Saiga would have NO CHANCE after that. So just like all the GM guys have said for the past 5 years, Saiga is just a fad. Plus, I would have to agree with what you said, it takes marginal skill to operate the AK-47, which in turn takes away the precision, skill, and art form of loading a real semi-automatic or pump shotgun. That is why in 3-gun there are 3 different skills: handgun, rifle (which is 90% of the time in AR, which is the real Saiga in the first place), and a shotgun (which takes the most skill to load). And like I said before, that's why there are 3 skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Open Division is Saiga Country, the only reason the big dogs are not on the band wagon is sponcership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 As already said on this thread, the mag guns take over on long courses of fire. Not the "pistol match with long guns with IDPA round count" matches like, say, last year's USPSA 3-Gun Nationals, but actual 3-Gun matches with parity round count between platforms and real distances on appropriate stages I don't know about Taran, but Benny Hill hand loading against a mere A-Class shooter with a mag-fed gun over a 30-round field course a few years ago: the mag-fed guy cleaned his clock. On a 8-round course: no advantage. 12-round course: no advantage. 16-round or better...the mag fed guns start taking over, and the more rounds involved the worse the disparity gets. Coming from a guy who has been running a mag fed gun for the last six years, that is Alex You beat Benny on a stage...? The 61 yr old little round man couldn't load 21 rounds by hand as quick as you could change two mags? That is truly a testament to the superiority of the Saiga shotgun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Open Division is Saiga Country, the only reason the big dogs are not on the band wagon is sponcership. What? I tought Benelli wont support tactical sports, but everyone(a lot) uses it. The last guy I saw with a Benelli "sponsorship" had a funny mustach and only shot things in the sky !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onyx Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 TALK IS CHEAP..... WHEN THERE IS A 3 GUN WORLD CHAMP AND USA CHAMP THAT SHOOTS A AK-47 SAIGA,.... THEN YOUR TALK WILL BE VALID. BUT RIGHT NOW ITS ALL TALK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Being one of the top dogs takes some natural talent most people don't have. They also have a significant amount of time invested in training to use the gear they have to optimum efficiency, so you're right until someone beats them they're not going to see the need to switch to a radically different platform. So to me it's a circular argument...the guns aren't good because none of the top dogs are using them, none of the top dogs are using them because no one skilled enough to beat them is using one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 In Matt Burkett's last radio show with Taran, Taran talks about getting a Tromix Saiga to play with like Dean Makkos has. Benny posted they were the "berries". I don't know exactly what that means but I guessed it was good. It was actaully seeing Wakal's and SinstralRifleman's posts that peaked my interest in them. It is just a fun gun, which is what gets me out on the range. Try one out, there is no denying a potential to win with it, like any other gun you put your practice time into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 I don't understand why so many people get heated about this. I'm interested in the Saiga not because I want to be the top 3-gun shooter in the world but because I'm intrigued by it. It just seems like a ton of fun. Is it an advantage to use this gun? Maybe, maybe not??? I play this sport because it is fun and exciting and to me it seems that the Saiga would be more fun and exciting to have fun with. Will I ever beat Matt Burkett??? Who knows but prob. not!!!! At this point in time that isn't my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) Pete, I believe in the Saiga, it gives me a competitive advantage and it is my weapon of choice for any eventuality. I guess you love the Siaga or hate it. The Saiga has many advantages including a manual gas regulator, it takes most AK after market items, the Saiga is simple to field strip, jams are easy to clear. Edited February 16, 2008 by Topmaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 You beat Benny on a stage...? The 61 yr old little round man couldn't load 21 rounds by hand as quick as you could change two mags?! Beating a hand-feeder is what the question was...and you know as well as I do that whuppin' up on THAT PARTICULAR 61 year old bad knees lasered-eyeballed pudgy old geezer is a gift to be treasured by its rarity Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I am allowing mag fed shotguns to compete side by side with their counterparts, provided the mag fed shotguns meet the division requirements. When the match is over, we can see how mag fed vs. tube fed goes. Alex and Fred, have both showed interest in coming to the match, so we should have a decent showing for the mag fed shotguns, and I am aware of at least one decent tube fed guy showing up for open and possibly two. All we need now is a decent mag fed shooter in Tactical Auto, and we'll have us a genuine horse race. For those of you interested the match is the, High Plains Shotgun Challenge. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) Last year we had our first annual shotgun Iron Man single stage match, there was just under 100 targets my Sixteen year old son won first place another Saiga shooter with two 20 round drums came in second, I came in third. there was a lot of running and reloading, Shooters were allowed to prestage ammunition on the course, I carried all of mine on me and used every single round I brought 124 it came down to the last round for me. You can imagen there were some smoking hot guns at the end. Edited February 16, 2008 by Topmaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Trapr, I'm glad you're willing to let the experiment be conducted...too bad I can't make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Well, in Greece at the European Shotgun Chmps, some of the Russians and Serbians had some really cool mag fed guns, but I don't know how they faired in the overall competition, I also don't recall other competitors saying that they were all going out to buy mag fed guns, so they could be competitive. We will just have to see what develops.............. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Trapr,I'm glad you're willing to let the experiment be conducted...too bad I can't make it. Me too, I'd bring that kid I just can't seem to beat anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamShot Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 For me this is just mathematics: Either load 8 one by one in 6s, push 8 round into tube with long speed-loader using 4s or reload 19 rounds in 4s if using mags. If competition favours short 6-10 shot stages I will consider taking tube gun since it points better and shooting is faster. BUT if 10-?? shots are needed almost at every stage I would fool myself if I were thinking going faster with regular shotgun than with Saiga. Anyway, choice is free. I do have and I do use "tubes" too. There are pros and contras with Saiga as is said. This is just my 2c. -JamShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M118LR Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 The 61 yr old little round man couldn't load 21 rounds by hand as quick as you could change two mags? He's hell on wheels for his age. He can be beat, but not very often. As for the Saiga, it looks like the way to go in Open, but only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I wonder how you shoot that from prone????? or stick a slug in it midway thru a course of fire? Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now