AzoneHits Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I have this problem with my 650 and 1050 after the ammo is crimp. I leaves a bullet shape on the top 1/3 portion of the brass casing - it shows the shape of the bullet inserted inside the brass casing. I look at my buddy's ammo and it's completely straight with no signs of the bullet shape after being crimped. Will opening up the casing to much during the powder funnel stage be the culprit for this problem? What possible problems can cause the brass casing to sort of form the bullet shape after the crimping stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I have this problem with my 650 and 1050 after the ammo is crimp. I leaves a bullet shape on the top 1/3 portion of the brass casing - it shows the shape of the bullet inserted inside the brass casing. I look at my buddy's ammo and it's completely straight with no signs of the bullet shape after being crimped.Will opening up the casing to much during the powder funnel stage be the culprit for this problem? What possible problems can cause the brass casing to sort of form the bullet shape after the crimping stage. To much crimp pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 coke bottle look? i've been told the coke bottle look is the prefered look reloaders are after. how about a picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Finished rounds that show the shape of the bullet inside the case are a good thing. It means that the case has been resized enough and that there will be a lot of neck tension (called pull) holding the bullet in place...which means you won't likely get bullet setback when the bullet contacts the feed ramp when it's fed into the chamber. It also helps a complete burn of the gunpowder, which is a good thing too. What cartridge are you loading? 9mm/38 Super/38SC all should have around a .378 diameter at the case mouth and .40 should be around .420. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I have noticed this too- hasn't really concerned me over the years since the ammo is reliable and safe...But would be interested in hearing what is causing it and if it is less than ideal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Lee Under-Sized Die???? That could be doing it. Just a guess tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I am loading on a SDB, so that isn't the case with mine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 It also depends on the round you are loading too. My 9mm doesn't show any of this at all. The only thing my crimp is doing it taking the flare off the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) I have checked my crimp frequently and it is within spec. So that isn't it. I was wondering about the possibility of the Hornady One Shot lube softening the cases and causing it. But not sure. Edited February 7, 2008 by Rocket35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I have checked my crimp frequently and it is withing spec. So that isn't it. I was wondering about the possibility of the Hornady One Shot lube softening the cases and causing it. But not sure. I hardly think Hornady One Shot wouild affect the cases at all. G-Man Bart is dead on with his post. Coke bottle shape is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce282 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 When I started reloading 9mm on my 550B I was told the same thing, coke bottle is good, but before you start cranking them out, pull the round apart and make sure you haven't crimped thru the coating/casing on the bullet. The first 147gr Remington I loaded looked like the new "figure 8" bullet design. Just a little too much crimp on that one. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) I have heard/read several times not to over lube your cases. I don't know....maybe everyone else, including reloading resourses are wrong. Possible I guess. I was just thinking that maybe since One Shot is a wax based lube that maybe it builds up and possibly causes that. I seem to remember that the cases were less affected without the lube. Please explain why the "coke bottle" effect is particularly a good thing. Edited February 7, 2008 by Rocket35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm3gnr Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 A lot of my rounds look that way as well. I have never put much thought into it as they all fit the case gauge and work properly. I do pay attention to crimp, I have seen some bullets crimped way too much and depending on design can seperate the coating and or jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 A good way to check it is to just use enough flare on the (Not flair, this isnt Chotchki's, or whatever the restaurant was.. ) case to seat the bullet smoothly. Then back off the crimp die until you are not touching the flare. Then adjust it slowly until the case mouth is smooth with no rough edges. Then pull the bullet and check the bullet for the "crimp" line. You want a faint impression line with jacketed bullets, less for plated, and you can put a little more on the lead bullets, but you do not want to deform the bullet by the crimp. The only exception is the roll crimp into the crimp cannalure on Revolver bullets, they need a good healthy crimp for good ignition and to keep the bullet from pulling out in the cylinder. Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 A picture would be helpful to tell exactly what is going on. If the bullet is being seated slightly cock-eyed, the solution is an in-line seating die such as the Redding Competition seating die. The reason why the "Coke bottle" effect is considered good, is that the case is sized smaller than the bullet at the bullet's base, this creates the Coke-bottle effect, and also provides tremendous resistance against bullet set back. Set back can easily cause overpressure situations, casehead separations, KBs, etc. Overlubing is not as big a deal on pistol rounds as it is on bottle-neck rifle rounds, cleaning your dies periodically will take care of this as well. One Shot isn't going to soften cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzoneHits Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) Thanks for your possible answers. coke bottle look? yes What cartridge are you loading? 38 super and will start with 9mm major 9mm/38 Super/38SC all should have around a .378 diameter at the case mouth Measured mine to be 0.381. Is it too big? I'm using MTG 124JHP Lee Under-Sized Die???? Dillon sizing die and Lee sizing die undersized A good way to check it is to just use enough flare on the (Not flair, this isnt Chotchki's, or whatever the restaurant was.. biggrin.gif ) case to seat the bullet smoothly. Then back off the crimp die until you are not touching the flare. Then adjust it slowly until the case mouth is smooth with no rough edges. Then pull the bullet and check the bullet for the "crimp" line. You want a faint impression line with jacketed bullets, less for plated, and you can put a little more on the lead bullets, but you do not want to deform the bullet by the crimp. I may try this too. Edited February 7, 2008 by AzoneHits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Lee Under-Sized Die???? Dillon sizing die and Lee sizing die undersized ]I do not have any experience with 38S/SC, but I have loaded thousands of 9 Major. The EGW (LEE) Undersize die is a GOOD thing. Before I switched to an undersize die, about 20 out of 100 rounds failed the case gauge. (Once fired WIN brass and mixed headstamp) If you are using once fired or more used brass you will have the Glock buldge to contend with. The EGW (Made by Lee) Undersize die resizes the case smaller than a commercial loaded round or any other dies on the market and removes the buldge (If set up correctly). So, when you seat the bullet you will have an outline of the bullet in the case (coke bottle effect). Everyone one with years of reloading experience has told me the coke bottle look is a "good thing", at least for 9 Major. From what I was told, an undersize die is not as important for 38S/SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The reason why the "Coke bottle" effect is considered good, is that the case is sized smaller than the bullet at the bullet's base, this creates the Coke-bottle effect, and also provides tremendous resistance against bullet set back. Set back can easily cause overpressure situations, casehead separations, KBs, etc.Overlubing is not as big a deal on pistol rounds as it is on bottle-neck rifle rounds, cleaning your dies periodically will take care of this as well. One Shot isn't going to soften cases. Thanks for the info John- so far you are the only one to have a "tangible" reason why the coke bottle effect is considered favorable. I am shooting lead in .40-.45 and have noticed it in all my loads. I have given some thought to loading with regular Clays in .40 but have been cautioned about set-back so I have never tried it. But my crimp is perfect and with this added "measure" of insurance against set-back, I may give it a try. I will definitely go slow....Thanks again for the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 9mm/38 Super/38SC all should have around a .378 diameter at the case mouth Measured mine to be 0.381. Is it too big? I'm using MTG 124JHP .381 should be okay...there's a little variation in all brass and bullets, but you're in the ballpark. If you're getting the coke bottle look and have the crimp at .381 it's not likely you'll have setback and if they pass the case gauge/feed okay, you should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The reason why the "Coke bottle" effect is considered good, is that the case is sized smaller than the bullet at the bullet's base, this creates the Coke-bottle effect, and also provides tremendous resistance against bullet set back. Set back can easily cause overpressure situations, casehead separations, KBs, etc.Overlubing is not as big a deal on pistol rounds as it is on bottle-neck rifle rounds, cleaning your dies periodically will take care of this as well. One Shot isn't going to soften cases. Thanks for the info John- so far you are the only one to have a "tangible" reason why the coke bottle effect is considered favorable. I am shooting lead in .40-.45 and have noticed it in all my loads. I have given some thought to loading with regular Clays in .40 but have been cautioned about set-back so I have never tried it. But my crimp is perfect and with this added "measure" of insurance against set-back, I may give it a try. I will definitely go slow....Thanks again for the post. Hey now I said that very same thing in post #4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Sorry I missed that G-man. Thanks go out to you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzoneHits Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 9mm/38 Super/38SC all should have around a .378 diameter at the case mouth Measured mine to be 0.381. Is it too big? I'm using MTG 124JHP .381 should be okay...there's a little variation in all brass and bullets, but you're in the ballpark. If you're getting the coke bottle look and have the crimp at .381 it's not likely you'll have setback and if they pass the case gauge/feed okay, you should be fine. Good to know and thanks. Forgot to mention I was using a new starline 38 super brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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