G24 jam - any suggestions?

[AustinMike]

I picked up a G24 last summer and it's run fine up until a week ago. I had it setup as follows: LWD barrel, Wolff guide rod, 15# recoil spring, mags with Dawson pads and extra strength springs, extended/enlarged mag release. My load is Precision Delta (FMJ) 180gr, 1.135", 6.2 Power Pistol. I ran this combination with no glitches last year. Made it through the TX State Limited just fine. The only problem I noticed early on was that the under side of the slide where it tends to bang the locking block was a bit burred and sharp, so I had a smith smooth it out and he shaved just a hair off the top of the locking block he said. Things seemed OK for a good while.

Now, I'm getting intermittent jams where the round is getting pushed to the side opposite the extractor and the bullet or the case edge snags on the barrel. There will be a cut in the bullet jacket when it snags there. It's catching around the 9 or 10 o'clock position on the chamber entrance. The top of the case rim is sitting just below the extractor and hasn't been pushed up under it when the jam occurs. Happens with multiple mags, usually mid-mag or towards the top.

To troubleshoot, I've been going back to stock, one part at a time. Right now, I'm back to the factory barrel and factory recoil spring. I also replaced my mag springs with new ones. Still had a jam. I decided to take out the aftermarket mag release and put the stock back in. I ran out of ammo to test thouroughly enough with the last change. That one is kind of a long shot, I think. I'll load some more ammo and shoot it in a match tomorrow and see what happens.

Another smith suggested smoothing up the chamber entrance some more, but I'm thinking that with the same problem in two barrels, that's not it. I think the rounds are just jumping the ramp off into the left side of the chamber face. The only other thing related that I can think of would be the locking block that the first smith shaved down. He didn't take off much at all and I don't think this part is playing a factor in the feeding process anyway (I could be wrong there!)

Any other ideas? I'm really frustrated that my Glock is jamming! That ain't supposed to happen!

Added some crappy pictures from my phone. On these, the bullet has snagged into the chamber edge in about the 9 or 10 o'clock position. The rim hadn't been pushed up under the extractor yet. You can kind of get an idea from the first picture of the angle the round is taking when it jams.

Edited January 19, 2008 by AustinMike

[Flexmoney]

You can measure your feed lips. I think CGR has the specs. posted on his website.

I don't know anything about that PP load. I assume it makes major and you are sure it is on?

Maybe add a touch more crimp, in case the rim of the ejecting round is catching on the crimp area of the round that is in the mag...disturbing it.

You slide could be out running your mags. Or, the recoil spring could be binding, and not allowing full travel.

You mags could be sitting high, causing the round in the mag to bump into the ejector.

I'd also tear it down and check for broken parts...cracked locking block , slide, trigger pin, frame rails...etc.

I'd clean (scrape) any carbon build up. Make sure the slide lock/release is in properly. Check for proper movement of the extractor...and inspect it for chips.

[SA Friday]

I've noticed with my G24 that the extended mags with a +10% spring puts a lot of pressure on the mag feed lips. How many rounds do you have on them? Try a new mag body and see if the jams go away. It looks like the current mag's feed lips are possibly pushed apart a bit.

Edited to add: damn, Flex beat me to the punch.

Edited January 19, 2008 by SA Friday

[Jager1147]

have you tried a different 180? Had the same problem in a G35, swithed to Montana Golds 180 JHP and problem dissapeared. Fool with the ammo before you fool with the gun. AOL change?

[AustinMike]

You can measure your feed lips. I think CGR has the specs. posted on his website.

I don't know anything about that PP load. I assume it makes major and you are sure it is on?

Maybe add a touch more crimp, in case the rim of the ejecting round is catching on the crimp area of the round that is in the mag...disturbing it.

You slide could be our running your mags. Or, the recoil spring could be binding, and not allowing full travel.

You mags could be sitting high, causing the round in the mag to bump into the ejector.

I'd also tear it down and check for broken parts...cracked locking block , slide, trigger pin, frame rails...etc.

I'd clean (scrape) any carbon build up. Make sure the slide lock/release is in properly. Check for proper movement of the extractor...and inspect it for chips.

I'll check those mag specs. The mags probably don't have more than maybe 600-800 rounds each through them. If the lips are stretched due to the extra power springs, can that be corrected or are Glock mag bodies considered disposable?

The PP load chrono'd this morning at 171PF.

Crimp is at .420 with Lee FCD. Is more crimp recommended?

No signs of breakage on anything, I just stripped it down and cleaned it up. I don't see anything wrong on the extractor. My breech face is a little rough maybe, but all my Glocks are like that.

The mags sitting high...that's interesting and could be something attributable to the oversized mag release. Now that I have that out and the factor in, we'll see.

I'll take my G22 to the match with me tomorrow. If the gun jams, I'll try swapping lowers. My G22 hasn't ever jammed.

Thanks so much for the help! You guys are fast - much appreciated!!!

Edit to add that I noticed that the slide stop piece is a little bigger on the G24 than my G22 or G17. Hmm... Wonder if there's any chance of a round hitting it as it chambers?

Edited January 19, 2008 by AustinMike

[Nik Habicht]

I'll throw out a few trouble shooting ideas:

Does it run with factory ammo? If so, it might be your reloads.

Did anything change about your reloads? Different heads? Change at the manufacturer? Loose settings on the press? Do they measure the same as before/pass the same case gauge?

Is there crud under the extractor? Are the parts that hold the extractor under tension intact?

Yes, as far as I'm concerned Glock mags are disposable. At $17 or so, I don't even bother re-springing mine; there's usally some burr marks in the plastic, feed lips are beginning to spread, as well as some other stuff, so they just get junked. It's just not worth it......

[AustinMike]

Just an update, I shot 6 stages today and no hiccups. The only things changed since the last jam are a complete breakdown, inspection, and cleaning, plus I put the factory mag release back in. Hopefully, the problem is solved. I even shot the match today with the LWD barrel in, since I was convinced it wasn't the barrel because the factory barrel jammed too. I did decide to leave the factory recoil spring in for now too. I checked the mag lips and mine are all over the range on the CGR site by around .005-.006. These mags aren't very old though, so I'm thinking that's just a result of the extra power springs. I did load only 18 rounds instead of my usual 19 today too. Jams are usually a few shots into the mags, so I don't know if that's even a factor.

Well, hopefully the ghost is out of the machine. It'll be a couple weeks until I get this gun out to another match. Thanks to all who suggested stuff.

[Flexmoney]

I'd look again to see if it was recoil spring bind (did you check/measure that for full travel ? )

[AustinMike]

I'd look again to see if it was recoil spring bind (did you check/measure that for full travel ? )

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how to tell for sure. I'd had jams with both a Wolff guide rod and 15# spring, as well as a new factory recoil assembly. Both springs seem to operate smoothly. I did notice that the Wolff spring bends out more when it's installed, maybe just a difference between coiled and flat wound spring types?

[Johann the Horrible]

Look at the "cut out" on the mag. You would probably see some "burrs" there. This causes the mag to sit high in the gun. It is one of the very few weak points in a Glock. Replace the mags or try and bring them back to spec. The most infuriating thing about this problem is that it only causes intermittent problems. Just when you think you kicked the problem it rears its ugly head again.

[atmar]

The only problem I noticed early on was that the under side of the slide where it tends to bang the locking block was a bit burred and sharp, so I had a smith smooth it out and he shaved just a hair off the top of the locking block he said.

this is the source of your problem.... i've never come across anyone doing this modification to a glock.

[AustinMike]

this is the source of your problem.... i've never come across anyone doing this modification to a glock.

http://www.custom-glock.com/peen.html

It's not uncommon and the gun has run fine for quite some time since the modification. For whatever reason, some Glocks peen heavily on the slide. One of the Glock armorers who does a bunch of the police guns around here has done this modification a number of times to correct it. I don't have any reason to believe this is the cuplrit at this time, but I won't rule anything out. If the jam returns, I'd consider putting in a block from another gun.

[gunnerBU]

I don't have a G24, but a G35. I went to the range yesterday, and had the exact same thing happen to me. Mike, did you ever figure out what was going on? or did it just work itself out? I have a bunch of pics of multiple jams if anyone wants to see them for clarification. All advice is appreciated.

[AustinMike]

Ross, I'm convinced it was the bullets (Precision Delta 180 JHP.) General Chang (Sheldon) and I went over the gun carefully and didn't find any thing wrong, but did some polishing of the feed ramp, extractor bottom, and breech face just in case. What we did find were some pretty big swings in OAL in my rounds. I had started loading out of a new shipment and only checked the OAL on a couple rounds. OAL was varying from about 1.130" to 1.141", setting the seater to 1.135"! There could have been longer extremes, but that's what we measured. Could have been long rounds dragging on the mag or snagging on the chamber entrance. Upon close visual inspection there were definitely variations in the bullet shape (broader flat points, varying ogive, etc.) This was all in the same boxes/lots. Not real good quality control there! I knocked my charge down from 6.2 to 6.0 (Power Pistol) and seated the bullets deeper. The variation is still there, but the rounds don't exceed 1.135" 99% of the time. I have been chamber checking every round now and setting aside any that don't fall easily out of the chamber (LWD barrel, so it is tight.) I've been through a couple of club matches and Double Tap now with no issues. Knock on wood, I think there was the problem. If Double Tap didn't make it happen, I think I'm good. I'll be ordering from Montana Gold next time around.

Edited April 9, 2008 by AustinMike

[chp5]

What mag follower # are you using?

[gunnerBU]

What mag follower # are you using?

2 #8 and the rest are #6

[Flexmoney]

OAL was varying from about 1.130" to 1.141", setting the seater to 1.135"!

That is not uncommon at all. You'll have some variation with the bullet shapes and some variation due to the shell plate. I always set my 40 loads to 1.135 and expected...and accepted...OAL up to 1.140

Austin Mike, which followers were you running with?

An accomplished Glocker recently told me that he was of the opinion that going to a shorter OAL might be the answer, fwiw. (Gotta watch that case pressure though).

(gunner...I haven't forgot about you...gathering some more info. The above Glocker tells me he sees the jam about 1 in 600 or so...not nearly the rate that you were seeing.)

[AustinMike]

You'll have some variation with the bullet shapes and some variation due to the shell plate. I always set my 40 loads to 1.135 and expected...and accepted...OAL up to 1.140

I expect some variation, but it seems like I was seeing a lot. At least .011", maybe more. I don't know what the breaking point for Glock is on the length. I used same HS brass and tightened the shell plate as much as possible and still got the wide range. There is a lot more variation in the bullet shapes than I've ever seen before.

Austin Mike, which followers were you running with?

These mags are all #6.

An accomplished Glocker recently told me that he was of the opinion that going to a shorter OAL might be the answer, fwiw. (Gotta watch that case pressure though).

My problems seem to have disappeared seating a bit shorter. The variation range seems to be staying within 1.135"-1.125" (with same HS brass and a real tight shellplate.) I'm kind of paranoid about pressure in .40, so I go against the flow and run Power Pistol. My load for major out of the long barreled G24 is the minimum starting load in the manual, so I feel pretty safe there. It shoots pretty flat out of the G24.

(gunner...I haven't forgot about you...gathering some more info. The above Glocker tells me he sees the jam about 1 in 600 or so...not nearly the rate that you were seeing.)

Ross, did you ever replace your "20 round" mag springs? I think you said those were the ones that were involved in the jams you had at Double Tap.

[Dave Marques]

Don't remember where I heard this but Glocks (like Para's) like shorter loads.

When I shoot major in my G35 I load "long" at 1.130 MAX. (I set the seater to 1.125"). I use N320 for powder in the Glock at major.

As others have said- you will see around +/- .005" on OAL of ALL heads, regardless of manufacturer.

Some mfgrs have a bit better control on head shape (contour) which also affects OAL you measure. (Affects where the head stops upward travel in the seating die.)

I beleive PD is using the old Star equipment and Star bullets worked great for years!

[Flexmoney]

For what it's worth...

I've ran tens of thousands of Zero 180g JHP's through my Limited Glock at Major. 1.135-1.140 OAL

Dawson and Taylor Freelance pads...on the older (non-tapered) mags...#5 followers or earlier. (I think those pads came with the +10% Wolff springs.)

No issues.

[Nik Habicht]

An accomplished Glocker recently told me that he was of the opinion that going to a shorter OAL might be the answer, fwiw. (Gotta watch that case pressure though).

Todd Jarrett told me the same thing during a class way back in 2003.....

I just gauged 50 rounds of .40 loaded with MG 180s --- 49 gauged between 1.127 and 1.129; the lone straggler came in at 1.134.....

Keen's old 35 runs like a raped ape with that ammo.....

[gunnerBU]

Ross, did you ever replace your "20 round" mag springs? I think you said those were the ones that were involved in the jams you had at Double Tap.

I did replace the bad spring, but I still had one jam with that magazine when I was at the range. I had even taken the magwell off the gun when it jammed.

[gunnerBU]

I went to the range today and had 2 FTF. I am starting to think it might be because of my guide rod. It has a groove forming toward the muzzle end (I didn't buy it so not sure if it comes with the groove, but guessing not). I'm running a tungsten rod with a 15# ISMI spring. When I got it, it had the tungsten rod with a 13# ISMI. Here are some pics of the rod:

Edited April 17, 2008 by gunnerBU

[Nik Habicht]

I went to the range today and had 2 FTF. I am starting to think it might be because of my guide rod. It has a groove forming toward the muzzle end (I didn't buy it so not sure if it comes with the groove, but guessing not). I'm running a tungsten rod with a 15# ISMI spring. When I got it, it had the tungsten rod with a 13# ISMI. Here are some pics of the rod:

That's a pretty normal wear pattern --- I'd be surprised if it was the cause, but by all means slap a stock rod back in the gun. You can pull the end off the rod to swap recoil springs......

[jobob]

FWIW, I had intermittent feeding failure with my G35 for some time. I finally figured it was the lip at the bottom of the magazines snagging the follower or spring with Taylor mag extensions. I put a good bevel on the bottom edge of all my mags and the problem seems to have gone away.