Quite impossible comparison: is there a way ?

[Stefano]

Sometimes, reading the overall results of a big match I ask myself what would have happened if a comperitor had shot the match in another division (each competitor with his own times & points).

The idea is how to make a comparison between two shooters who has shot the match in two different divisions.

I know that it's quite impossible but .... is there a reasonable way to compare the results (in the same match) of two different Top GMs in two different divisions ??

Let's make an example:

- the match is a big one, and the the top 10 in each division are the best skilled international top shooters

- competitor "A" is ... among the top 10 in Production Division

- competitor "B" is ... among the top 10 in Open Division

- is not possible to trick the match-backup with WinMSS (the only thing avaiable is the overall match result).

Any suggestion is welcome !

Edited January 1, 2008 by Stefano

[Flexmoney]

yeah...click on the "combined results" button in the scoring software.

[Flexmoney]

OK...I know that won't get you anywhere. The US scoring software has a combined results feature. Many (local) matches will post combined results (unofficial).

For a big match...you might be able to get the txt file (copy and paste) and input the data into Excel ?

[ChuckS]

I can only see 2 ways to do it. The manual method is to take the stage hit factors of guy you want to division shift and re-calculate the stage points based on the stage winners of the new division. I have never used your scoring program but I tried this with EZWinScore. I made a copy of a match database opened it and changed a division of one of the competitors using the registration function. I then recalculated the results and the guy was in the new division. In my example, I moved Taran Butler from SS to LTD in a club match. He moved to LTD (and I won SS ).

Did that help?

Later,

Chuck

[Stefano]

Thanks guys !

I am speaking about match results of the 2007 European Handgun Championship (and unfortunately there isn't a data-backup of this match: perhaps it's a too big file ...).

I am just curious to know what it could be the Production Overall, moving in this division a friend of my (who is Edoardo Buticchi, perhaps our best italian GM ...) from 6 place in the Open overall.

The match results are avaiable here:

http://www.xtremeshooting.com.br/mss/match...atchnum=1#cat17

but I'm not sure to be able of doing that trick ...

Edited January 2, 2008 by Stefano

[ChuckS]

Ok Stefano,

Here is Edoardo in Production. He won

edoardo.htm

(He beat Adam by 5.57%)

By the way, there seems to some problem with the top production score for stage 13!

Enjoy,

Chuck

[HoMiE]

Yeah, stage/match points wise he won, but did he really? I mean comparing a open shooter to a production shooter, round capacity, major vs. minor, reloads, I'd say Adam won.

[dirtypool40]

A couple years back I crunched the numbers by hand, and moved Robbie from Limited to Open, just dragging HF's and figuring points.

He still made the top 10, 8th if I remember correctly, at like 88%?

Not too shabby.

When I shot internationally, at our local club, the toughest shooters were in standard, and they NEVER posted combined results, but we ALWAYS grabbed the stages sheets and compared HF's.

[Stefano]

Ok Stefano,

Here is Edoardo in Production. He won

edoardo.htm

(He beat Adam by 5.57%)

By the way, there seems to some problem with the top production score for stage 13!

Enjoy,

Chuck

Thank you so much Chuck !!!

I'll forward to Edoardo this good information ....

Edo (also called "Bubu" by the friends ...) is perhaps our best Top GM (without taking apart all the others very good Italian Top Shooters ...).

If you want to see Bubu "in action", please go to our Club's website, to the scrolling-link "VIDEO":

http://www.uboldoshooting.it/

Thank you so much again !!

[ChuckS]

Yeah, stage/match points wise he won, but did he really? I mean comparing a open shooter to a production shooter, round capacity, major vs. minor, reloads, I'd say Adam won.

Actually, what would be interesting is to move Tyc into Open division. But, I am home sick today and I really don't care enough to do the work. In case someone out there isn't following what I have done here is how you do it.

You collect the stage hit factors for the person you want to relocate into a new division. You then divide their stage hit factor by the high hit factor of each stage and multiply that quotient by the maximum stage points available for that stage. That number is the stage points earned on that stage for the relocated shooter. If the relo guy's HF is higher than the high HF for the new division, the guy get's all the points. Sum all the stage points to get match points. the match points indicate where the guy finished in the new division.

stage points =(relo shooter stage HF/division stage high HF)*(max available stage points)

where (relo shooter HF/division stage high HF) <= 1.0

match points = ∑ stage points

If you want a true "head to head" picture you need to make sure you are using the highest HF for each stage from ANY divison. It is easier to just use the scoring software.

Later,

Chuck

Edited January 3, 2008 by ChuckS

[Ramas]

I did another very interesting commparison for myself. Vaclav Vinduska is one of the best Production shooters in Europe, and he was moved to Open, for some reasons, which I do not want to discuss here. He finished in Open in 74th place with his Production gun 70,05% from Eric Grauffel score. So if he was in Production, he would be in second place with about 97%. He have big chances to become European champion in production div. if he was not moved to Open, because we should recalculate Adam Tyc stage points also to get clearer picture.

[ChuckS]

I did another very interesting commparison for myself. Vaclav Vinduska is one of the best Production shooters in Europe, and he was moved to Open, for some reasons, which I do not want to discuss here. He finished in Open in 74th place with his Production gun 70,05% from Eric Grauffel score. So if he was in Production, he would be in second place with about 97%. He have big chances to become European champion in production div. if he was not moved to Open, because we should recalculate Adam Tyc stage points also to get clearer picture.

Ramas,

Anything for a brother Lithuanian! Actually it was easy since I had already moved one shooter into Production it was easy just to copy Vaclav's HFs into the spreadsheet. Vaclav would of been in 4th place just behind Angus. 94.58% Too bad about getting bumped.

vaclav.htm

Later,

chuck

edit: stand by. I just realized that I need to adjust the other top three scores. I will fix this right now

edit: The change in the stage 14 winner did not change the results much. Vaclav is still in 4th

Edited January 4, 2008 by ChuckS

[Ron Ankeny]

It's always interesting to see how a shooter would have done with his/her chosen platform in another division. FWIW, I read somewhere on this forum a long time ago that an open blaster had about an 8% advantage over a limted gun. Don't know if it's true or what that's worth. I assume if a limited shooter got 92% of an open gunner's score one could say they had comparable performances?

[ChuckS]

Ron,

I think that the advantage would be stage layout dependant. Long and tight shots vs up close tight shots where you have to be aware of the C-more offset. On sort of a related note: Taran usually registers in open at the SWPL club matches. And he usually wins the division (and the match)

Later,

Chuck

PS: THis sort of thing is why I like seeing the overall results. We get them on our area web site but I wish we could see them on the USPSA site!