Double action revolver

[bones507]

Greetings

I am having quite a bit of trouble lately shooting DA on my revolvers. I have been shooting revolvers mainly because of back problems and i cant be crawling around on the ground picking up brass. With a semi-auto i was doing quite well as i learned a few things mainly to keep my eye glued to the front sight and a constant trigger press or consistent if you will and better grip.

I was keeping all my shots in a 4-5 inch circle at 10-13 yards which is a huge improvement for me. Now shooting the revo single action, i was shooting real good, its when i go to the DA that im getting in trouble. Seems like im going high and low and when theyre off center its mainly to the left. Now i have the shooters wheel targets telling you what youre doing wrong, but im pretty much stumped as to what my main problem is. I thought i was flinching but i loaded a few empty chambers and spun the cylinder so as to not know, but my hands stayed fairly steady so i ruled that out.

Anyone have any thoughts ?

[Bubber]

bones507, If you are shooting only one target and having the group open up, there a couple things to look at. One the pull, is it smooth or are you slapping the trigger. My definition of slapping the trigger getting on target...then pulling the trigger as fast as you can. and then keeep pulling making the barrel go down. IMHO the hammer should move back smoothly and then be released to fire the round. One other thing is when you pull the trigger what is moving in your hand. It should only be the trigger finger. I have seen shooters sqeeze the whole hand slightly thus movin the barrel one way or the other. But I may be all wet. Welcome to the crwd. rdd

[flycaster]

A lovely lady of my acquaintance- and an NRA certified instructor- teaches her students to pull the part of the finger in contact with the trigger straight toward his/her nose. If the pull is straight back, and nothing else moves (BIG assumption!), the shots will group well. You may also want to have the gun's action smoothed out some. That can really help.

Chuck

[benos]

In shooting a DA revolver accurately, what helped me more than anything was learning how to properly pull the trigger. Although there are a couple different theories on which way is best, this is what worked for me: Once you begin pulling the trigger, keep pulling the trigger at the exact same speed until the gun fires.

A really common mistake is to slow down the trigger pull - or even to stop the pull and start it again - the closer the trigger gets to firing the gun.

The next time you practice, try this - Get the sights lined up on the target as good as you can. Then, although you're still looking at the front sight - completely forget about anything that has to do with "aiming": sight alignment - movement of the sight alignment - where you want the bullet to go - group size - calling the shot, etc., and instead place 100% of your attention on the feeling of just rolling the trigger straight through.

be

[vrmn1]

In shooting a DA revolver accurately, what helped me more than anything was learning how to properly pull the trigger. Although there are a couple different theories on which way is best, this is what worked for me: Once you begin pulling the trigger, keep pulling the trigger at the exact same speed until the gun fires.

A really common mistake is to slow down the trigger pull - or even to stop the pull and start it again - the closer the trigger gets to firing the gun.

The next time you practice, try this - Get the sights lined up on the target as good as you can. Then, although you're still looking at the front sight - completely forget about anything that has to do with "aiming": sight alignment - movement of the sight alignment - where you want the bullet to go - group size - calling the shot, etc., and instead place 100% of your attention on the feeling of just rolling the trigger straight through.

be

What Brian said.

I know a lot of people "stage" the tirgger on a DA revolver but I am don't like this. AND neither does Jerry. And when it comes to revolvers I tend to listen to Jerry.

The thing he talks about the most next to watching the front sight is keep the gun running as smooth as possible.

[bones507]

Thanks for the input guys, its appreciated. I will try the above mentioned tips out, i really wasnt staging the trigger but i definetly think i was trying to go too fast and i think that is where my fault lays. I forgot the old saying : "You got to learn to walk before you can run". I assume once i get the correct pull down pat the speed will come later as it did for me with my Beretta and the revo single action.

[David Sinko]

You have a DA Beretta? Dry fire it a couple of hundred times a day with each hand to strengthen your trigger fingers and grip. That way you won't wear out a good revolver prematurely. I can not stress how important this is.

The trigger pull must be a consistent speed. Forget the idea of trying to hold and stage the trigger. I believe that the trigger finger must NOT slide around on the trigger. I use the pad of my trigger finger and grooved triggers. I never use the joint or crease unless I am shooting a J Frame or other very small revolver and have no choice.

Most people who give up on the DA revolver do so out of lack of serious practice and effort. The key is to not be discouraged and to just stick with it. As long as you do lots of dry fire I guarantee you will see results very quickly. Just don't give up!

Dave Sinko

[bones507]

You have a DA Beretta? Dry fire it a couple of hundred times a day with each hand to strengthen your trigger fingers and grip. That way you won't wear out a good revolver prematurely. I can not stress how important this is.

The trigger pull must be a consistent speed. Forget the idea of trying to hold and stage the trigger. I believe that the trigger finger must NOT slide around on the trigger. I use the pad of my trigger finger and grooved triggers. I never use the joint or crease unless I am shooting a J Frame or other very small revolver and have no choice.

Most people who give up on the DA revolver do so out of lack of serious practice and effort. The key is to not be discouraged and to just stick with it. As long as you do lots of dry fire I guarantee you will see results very quickly. Just don't give up!

Dave Sinko

I dont have dbl action Beretta, 92 fs. After i posted the above i went to the range and took my 686 with me and about 100 rounds of 148gr wadcutters. I THOUGHT i wasnt staging the trigger but i was. It took a few mins for the stuff the guys above posted to sink in. Well i just tried keeping it at a consistent speed right thru and at 7 yards i was doing much better and i mean MUCH. I was getting 5 out of 6 in the bull and the 6th was more likely than not a flinch. But it took a while for the consistent speed to kick in. But i definetly see the difference. Now at 13 yards it was a different story. I was all over the place, lol. I would guess the main thing for me is to keep my eye glued to the front sight straight thru like i been doing and a consistent speed on the trigger pull. Should keep me out of trouble, MAYBE. lol

What distance do most of you guys shoot from ? Maybe i was trying from too far out ? Can this be ? This is one of the few times i have shot as close as 7 yards. I usually shoot from 10-13 yards. Any chance this was hurting me ?

[Revopop]

I'm in the midst of a major bout of revolver fever. The last 3 guns of bought (of the total 7 I own) have been revolvers, and a 625 is in my near future. The thing that helped me the most was dryfire. I can't stress this enough. All you have to do is point the UNLOADED gun at a safe target and pull the trigger smoothly and consistently. If your front sight moves, you're doing it wrong. The more you do this, the more it's programmed into your muscles and then you won't have to think about it. In fact, you won't even be able to do it wrong without deliberately trying. This works with any gun, but especially with a DA revolver.

[David Sinko]

I believe every Beretta 92 that was ever made has a DA first shot. If you use that for dry firing, all the trigger pulls will be long and heavy since the slide will never cock the hammer. My duty gun is a Sig 229 and I can't tell you how much I hated that gun until I realized it's perfect for dry fire practice. My revolvers were starting to take a dry fire beating until I realized the longer, heavier and more atrocious pull of the Sig was perfect for keeping my hands and fingers properly conditioned. Very bad things can happen to revolvers when you dry fire them tens of thousands of times but I do not have any emotional attachment to a Sig. Keep dry firing! When you are out on the range and increase your distance slow down your trigger pull as necessary to get the hits but keep the speed of the pull consistent. Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting by Ed McGivern is a must-have book for any revolver shooter and he will show you what you can accomplish if you REALLY stick with it.

Dave Sinko

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

In shooting a DA revolver accurately, what helped me more than anything was learning how to properly pull the trigger. Although there are a couple different theories on which way is best, this is what worked for me: Once you begin pulling the trigger, keep pulling the trigger at the exact same speed until the gun fires.

A really common mistake is to slow down the trigger pull - or even to stop the pull and start it again - the closer the trigger gets to firing the gun.

The next time you practice, try this - Get the sights lined up on the target as good as you can. Then, although you're still looking at the front sight - completely forget about anything that has to do with "aiming": sight alignment - movement of the sight alignment - where you want the bullet to go - group size - calling the shot, etc., and instead place 100% of your attention on the feeling of just rolling the trigger straight through.

be

Just to add to this, I use a rhythmic saying for people I teach to gain proper trigger pull.

Say over and over in your head "Pick the hammer up keep it moving let it fall" Every time you say "fall" you should hear a bang

It provides a rhythm no matter how fast you say it or how slow. Try it.

Regards,

Gary

[Allgoodhits]

I shoot DA and Glock "type" triggers the same. That is, since it is a moving trigger; keep the trigger moving at a constant speed. A DA trigger can be pulled slowly or quickly as long as it is smoothly. In other words, never accelerate the trigger pull.

Two other things worth mentioning. One, a very firm grip can help stabilize the firearm during the stroke of the trigger, especially if the trigger is very heavy, or worse erratic. Two, the trigger finger placement determines the grip, not the otherway around. You must find the trigger finger placement (pad vs first joint or in between) which enables YOU with THAT GUN to cause the hammer to cock and fall without permitting the sights to become misaligned during the stroke of the trigger. This is controlling the trigger. Until you determine the trigger finger placement, then grip follows, you will likely continue to have problems shooting DA. Learn this concept, and you can pick up any DA gun, and after a few dryfires to determine what trigger finger and grip enables the uninterrupted straight pull

of the trigger and you will out shoot most DA shooters. Believe it or not, most HM PPC shooters shoot DA only, including 50 yds and most can likely shoot better groups DA than they can SA. Just keep the trigger moving, align the sights during the process and drive the gun to the desired hit area.

Be Safe, Have fun;

Martin

[border]

Lots of theories on DA revo trigger pulls. When I first started shooting PPC I was taught to push/pull the grip...push w/the strong hand and pull w/the weak hand...Weak hand solidifies the gun, strong hand runs the trigger...But you can over-do this to the pont of getting the shakes...back off a bit. Find the right placement for your trigger finger, I like the first joint. This lets me "stage" off the trigger guard (when things are going well...this takes a long time to develop feel..more quirk than anything...lends to timimg). But you need a small grip on the gun and long fingers. To each his own.A lot of people don't like to "stage" a DA revo...I do in PPC (in spite of what I'm occasionally told by really good shooters I respect...who then go out and "stage" their own trigger pulls!), and then lie to my face that they don't do that!...We got em on film...For "action" or IPSC shooting the best way would probably be a nice, controlled straight pull from start to finish...No time to "stage" anyting...but you must avoid slapping. You need consistentcy here..that'll jerk ya all over the place and you won't know why...What counts w/a DA is that you DO NOT KNOW when it's going to go off. It's just happens...Your thinking must be linear...straight back...mentally you have to separate your trigger finger from your hand, i.e. it's a separate entity that has a function unrelated to either hand...This is a mental approach that comes w/the first $10,000 worth of guns and practice...Hard to get overnight...Ah hell...this is just the beginning of good DA shooting...Stance/breathing/visual acuity...the list grows. But it's a start...and after 20+ years I'm still learning...Front sight is everything...nothing else exists...the mechanics of what your doing don't even exist while you're doing it...got that?...Wish I could remember all this...Couple more important things: revo? Get a good/smooth trigger job...I think you mentioned a 686? That can be turned into a reliable yet buttery trigger...but not out of the factory. It's worth the cost... (Can't stress how important this is...it can turn a 15lb gritty, stacking factory trigger into the smoothest 8-9 lb piece of butter you've ever had...leads to much easier consistent pulls). Have the gun milled by a machinist to take moon clips, find sights you like and go for it...Final words: Dry fire...dry fire...dry fire...dry fire...won't hurt that DA at all...Put a dime on top of the barrel, just behind the front sight and dry fire...When you can drop the hammer w/o dropping the dime...everytime...then your pull will have smoothed out...After awhile you'll never think of cocking the hammer for anything...It's a DA...shoot it that way...Then find the best revolver shooter you know and bug him until he walks you through some of his secrets or training methods...he'll probably be happy to do so. I know some shooters here that are "A" class IPSC and can make autos look slow...But they are well-versed in the fundamentals of proper DA shooting...Gotta get me a 625 and set it up for IPSC again...Feel like I'm missing something...Good luck...and ignore guys who've never shot a good DA gun...Might wanna look up ICORE too...

[chirpy]

bones507 Go to ShootingUSA.com and check out pro tips...There you should find tips fro the best of them all JM. Some might help. Check out the others also because they are interesting.

[Allgoodhits]

.... Find the right placement for your trigger finger, I like the first joint. This lets me "stage" off the trigger guard (when things are going well...this takes a long time to develop feel..more quirk than anything...lends to timimg). But you need a small grip on the gun and long fingers. To each his own.A lot of people don't like to "stage" a DA revo...I do in PPC (in spite of what I'm occasionally told by really good shooters I respect...who then go out and "stage" their own trigger pulls!), and then lie to my face that they don't do that!...We got em on film...For "action" or IPSC shooting the best way would probably be a nice, controlled straight pull from start to finish...No time to "stage" anyting...but you must avoid slapping. You need consistentcy here..that'll jerk ya all over the place and you won't know why...What counts w/a DA is that you DO NOT KNOW when it's going to go off. It's just happens...Your thinking must be linear...straight back...mentally you have to separate your trigger finger from your hand, i.e. it's a separate entity that has a function unrelated to either hand....Good luck...and ignore guys who've never shot a good DA gun...Might wanna look up ICORE too...

As one who has shot quite a bit of PPC 1978 -1981 we were putting the eraser tips of #2 pencils behind our triggers to act as a stop, to stage the triggers when shooting DA. Eraser tips are cheap, easily obtained from any borrowed pencil, and easy to adjust with a finger nail file! Later, foam ear plugs (maybe the foam ear plugs were first) and adjustable threaded trigger stops were developed.

The staging (bad term) with this style or technique was three fold. One, at 7 & 15 yds there was so little resistance on the stop, you simply kept the trigger moving and pulled through it. At all other distances (25 & 50 yds) there was enough time to really "camp out" on the front sight, maintain a very firm grip, and work the trigger. Working the trigger was often done by taking up the trigger movement, while aligning sights and getting the breathing down. Ideally the timing was such that when the sights were right and the breathing sequence was proper the trigger would have come to the "stop". Ideally, the pressure never ceased, it just that the trigger feel just transitioned from a moving trigger ALA DA to a static trigger ALA 1911, then without letting up any pressure the trigger pressure was maintained to cause the gun to fire as a surprise. In essence, to some degree the "moving part of the trigger was to cock the gun and rotate the cylinder, the final phase was the tigger pull which caused the hammer to fall. Some would let their trigger fingerc make conatct with the trigger rear of the trigger guard to duplicate this "style" when shooting Distinguished gun or bull guins that had no stop. I liked the erasers, but they were not asllowed on Distinguished guns.

The reason I don't like the term stage, is that it applies too much separation of events. For me, ideally, it was a continous pressure which went from a DA to SA feel. When, I interrupteed this flow, with a separate and distinct "stage" then often that was a day that things were not clicking, and it became work. I might add, on these guns, you could pull trigger and let the hammer catch. (actually the trigger and DA sear with resistance of the rubber stop was the catch, not the SA notch) You could actually take your finger off the trigger, and the gun would stay in a "cocked" position with the trigger near the rear.

A significant problem with this set up was that if the trigger (or hammer) had too much side to side slop, then you may have a clean 1-2 lb let off after the "cocking" right hand, but when you went to shoot left hand, and if the trigger pull was not exactly the same as right hand, then to your surprise you may have 4 or 5 lb let off, or so it seemed. I finger nail file to the trigger stop would fix this, or so would shims for the trigger or hammer.

Oh those were the days! Tommy Gaines, Charlie Pirtle, Jim Collins, John Pride, and yes Jimmy Cirrillo and a host of others.

Martin

[border]

+1 Allgoodhits. You put some of what I was trying to get at in much more coherent language. I had to stop somewhere and I was getting tired of typing...If I start up again it'll just end up being an esoteric rant on the DA pull...I'll leave that to guys who write books for a living. To attempt more would require beer and a group of like-minded shooters...Basically for IPSC revolver I guess you need a good trigger, perfectly functioning gun (S/W's lend themselves to good trigger work, shim as necessary), and learning how to use the sights while maintaining good DA fundementals. Learn how to reload quickly (moon-clips are the only way to go, even w/a 686...ala Miculek). Practice, practice, practice. Reload.

[Matt Griffin]

Just a quick tip: you don't need to wear out a real firearm for finger strength, I have a 20$ BB pistol with what is probably a 12lb. trigger, I just keep it in my truck and work the trigger (out of sight!) until tired.

H.