What happens when you drop a gun - revolver versus semi-automatic?

[jixi290]

It seems to me that in the course of carefully, legally concealing a weapon with an unfamiliar-to-me, female-friendly, and civilian technique (like a belly band or a clipdraw), I might drop the gun. There is in fact a good chance, given how many times over the course of several years I've seen my cell phone skid to the ground, its battery bumped right out of place, when all I did was prop open the door and remember I forgot to thaw meat for dinner.

So in selecting my first handgun, I want to keep in mind the question: What happens when you drop this thing?

Is there a difference between semis (like a Glock .38) and revolvers (like a Smith & Wesson 642 .38), in light of this particular concern? Are any types (single-action versus double-action, semi versus revolver) or brands (Glock, Beretta, and bears, oh my) more or less likely to go off when dropped? Clearly in the drop-gun scenario, there's not a finger on the trigger... So I know (logically if not emotionally) a double-action revolver couldn't go off in that case. The others, I don't know!

[AlamoShooter]

Welcome most everyone sees me with a hi cap race gun. But my real gun is a the 642 with the counseled hammer. even with an exposed hammer a person could hit it with a mallet and it would not fire Dropping a firearm is not a good thing but nothing to be afraid of with most any gun I am aware of.

the 642 will fit into a small padded camera bag and sit in plain sight on the kitchen table or Like my wife keeps it when filling up the car at night hung over her shoulder like a big coin purse

[Chris Keen]

It's never a good thing when a gun gets dropped, because you just never know what's truly possible until it really does happen. And then it's too late. That's why we DQ a shooter who drops their gun in a match. Because it's better to be safe and learn not to drop it, than to let it happen at all.

But with that said, I was getting my Glock 19 out of my safe the other night, and dropped it. It bounced on the carpet (thankfully) a couple of times before I could grab it, and even though it scared the bejezzees out of me ... it DID NOT go off (to my relief). Glocks as well as most other semi automatics made in the last 10 years have some sort of very reliable "drop safety" system that blocks the firing pin / or striker from hitting the primer on the back of the bullet.

I would discourage you from dropping your gun, but not worry about what will happen if you should do so.

PS WELCOME !

(edited for spelling)

Edited November 15, 2007 by CHRIS KEEN

[AikiDale]

If you drop a gun, any gun, it will go off and kill an innocent child.

Welcome to the forums!

[Chris Keen]

If you drop a gun, any gun, it will go off and kill an innocent child.

Welcome to the forums!

+1

The first thing you should do when buying any gun or holster is try it out at home with an un-loaded gun for a couple of days. Save somebodys life.

Edited November 15, 2007 by CHRIS KEEN

[G-ManBart]

Unless something is really broken, a modern double-action revolver won't go off it it were dropped off of a tall building and landed right on the hammer spur, so I guess as an absolute, they're the least likely to go off if dropped. The same could be said of modern single action revolvers, but I don't think you're likely to carry one for CCW purposes!

Similarly, pretty much every quality double-action or double-action-only auto has a feature built in that prevent them from going off if dropped....Glocks, Sigs, S&W, H&K, XD's etc all have a firing pin block that puts metal on metal to prevent the firing ping from moving unless the trigger is pulled. The firing pin block isn't usually quite as robust as that used in a revolver because of how it has to work, but it's still exceedingly safe.

Modern single action automatics frequently have firing pin blocks like the ones described above, but not always. Springfield Armory uses a combination of a light firing pin made out of titanium along with a strong firing pin spring that won't let the firing pin move enough to strike the primer when dropped, but in theory I guess it's possible to hit one with a sledge hammer hard enough to make it fire, but it isn't likely. For that to happen the hammer would have to be down on a loaded chamber and then it would have to get whacked. If the hammer was cocked, it would break the hammer hooks, then the half-cock notch and then it might go forward enough to set off the primer....just isn't likely to happen from any normal and even most unusual drops. Kimber now makes their single action guns with a firing pin block as does Colt.

If you buy a quality gun I don't think you have to worry about it going off unless you pull the trigger. I've seen plenty of loaded Glocks dropped and I've never seen one go off....never even heard about one going off from being dropped.

[Bigbadaboom]

If you drop a gun, any gun, it will go off and kill an innocent child.............

your dog, cat, hamster, the neighbors kids, your spouse, your Preacher and everyone else.

Seriously though, if you going into this expecting to drop your gun then you WILL drop the gun so I recommend that you don't get one if you are in that mind-set. The attitude that you should have going into this is "I will get whatever training necessary to handle my firearm safely at all times no matter what."

Example: I am 41 years old and I got my first firearm 8 and handeled my first one at 4. I've been actively shooting regularly since the age of 11 and spent 8 years in the U.S. Army where I had a gun in my hands 98% of the days I spent there. I've been shooting competitive pistol since 1999 and have had a gun in my hands at least twice every day since 1997. I have NEVER dropped a firearm. I'm not saying that I won't but I'm saying that the chance is very unlikely because, from an early age, I've learned and been trained in the attitude of respect that a firearm derserves.

I can't answer your original question but I can say that you should not get a Semi-auto or a Revolver if you expect to drop it.

[Mooney]

(like a Glock .38)

1: Huh? (referring to the above)

2: Most all modern arms are quite safe in this regard. Most modern holsters are also quite secure, and dropping the gun should not be an issue. If you are very concerned about it, there are many types of holsters available with different retention devices. I usually use a holster with an open-top design, but to each their own- as long as the pistol is secure, it should not fall off.

That said, I love my SW 642. Small, light, and extremely accurate. Always practice with your carry gun- unloaded draws, reholstering, etc. Once you can perform basic manuevers such as these, move on to unloaded draw and dry fire. Then go to the range, and shoot without drawing, and progress naturally from there.

The 642 has an internal block which rests between the hammer and the firing pin which is mounted in the frame. The block is released when the trigger is pulled, allowing the hammer to contact the FP, and igniting the propellants.

If you are truly concerned about your ability to keep the gun from falling free from your control, get a holster with a retention strap, and use it. I am not an advocate of keeping an empty chamber, especially on a defense gun (particularly a semi-auto) but you could EASILY leave the "active" chamber empty in a snubnose revolver (reducing your capacity to 4 rounds typically) in which case the trigger would have to be pulled in order to rotate the cylinder, cock and release the hammer, etc.

(BTW- Welcome!)

[G-ManBart]

If you drop a gun, any gun, it will go off and kill an innocent child.............

your dog, cat, hamster, the neighbors kids, your spouse, your Preacher and everyone else.

Seriously though, if you going into this expecting to drop your gun then you WILL drop the gun so I recommend that you don't get one if you are in that mind-set. The attitude that you should have going into this is "I will get whatever training necessary to handle my firearm safely at all times no matter what."

Example: I am 41 years old and I got my first firearm 8 and handeled my first one at 4. I've been actively shooting regularly since the age of 11 and spent 8 years in the U.S. Army where I had a gun in my hands 98% of the days I spent there. I've been shooting competitive pistol since 1999 and have had a gun in my hands at least twice every day since 1997. I have NEVER dropped a firearm. I'm not saying that I won't but I'm saying that the chance is very unlikely because, from an early age, I've learned and been trained in the attitude of respect that a firearm derserves.

I can't answer your original question but I can say that you should not get a Semi-auto or a Revolver if you expect to drop it.

Daniel,

Please don't take this to be a personal attack, but I couldn't disagree more. We're only a few years apart in age and I was also in the military, have competed since my early teens, started USPSA shooting in 1991 and carry a gun every day now, so our experiences aren't all that different. I can't recall ever dropping a firearm, but that doesn't mean I haven't thought about what could happen if I did. It's like an AD....you don't want it to happen, but you expect that it WILL happen rather than say "the chance is very unlikely"....that's just a dangerous way to approach things when it comes to guns.

In firearms safety we plan for the worst case scenario rather than say "if I thought that was going to happen I wouldn't have a gun". If you point your weapon in a safe direction at all times just in case you have an AD you're planning for something far worse than just dropping a gun, but that doesn't keep you from having them right?

The threadstarter asked if there was any difference between the different gun types because it's outside her experience base and she's trying to be smart and safe. That seems like a good way to approach it....figure the worst will happen and if you're ready for it after having received the proper training there won't be a tragedy.

Now that I think about it, I didn't drop the firearm in my hands, but there was one time I was chasing off a drunk during a high risk arrest and stepped on black ice....went down hard and my M4 slammed into the concrete steps just as my face hit the handguards....that's pretty much like dropping it. I accepted that I was going to fall, kept the muzzle in a safe direction and kept my finger off the trigger. I know an M4 doesn't have a firing pin safety of any kind (not even a spring) so I couldn't risk letting go of it and losing muzzle control just in case it did discharge....because I was familiar with the system and the safeties it has (or doesn't have). Still have the slowly receeding scar on my shin from that one

[Bigbadaboom]

I was replying to this statement:

I might drop the gun. There is in fact a good chance,

I believe in insuring that the firearm is safe "incase" it is dropped and calculating that instance into the decision process. I don't agree with going into the purchase of a firearm with the belief that it is highly likely that you will drop it. That's all.

And, by the way, Welcome jixi290. You can learn a lot here.

[Rob Boudrie]

1911s without firing pin blocks can indeed go off when dropped onto concrete - the angle of impact, weight of firing pin, length of firing pin, and weight of firing pin spring are all factors.

Many modern guns are "drop safe" due to internal safeties that automatically engage, however, it's important to remember that you can defeat all of these safeties by pulling the trigger (duh) - which can easily happen by trying to catch a dropped or fumbled gun. I'v read reports of police shooting themselves in the leg when an individual attempted to catch a gun they dropped. If you've got a modern gun with fully functional safeties the best approach to a dropped gun may be to stay clear of the gun to avoid hitting the trigger as it falls.

[Carlos]

Welcome most everyone sees me with a hi cap race gun. But my real gun is a the 642 with the counseled hammer. even with an exposed hammer a person could hit it with a mallet and it would not fire Dropping a firearm is not a good thing but nothing to be afraid of with most any gun I am aware of.

the 642 will fit into a small padded camera bag and sit in plain sight on the kitchen table or Like my wife keeps it when filling up the car at night hung over her shoulder like a big coin purse

Chris Keen: very well said.

I will simply add: you have already begun to take the one best step in avoiding a dropped gun: you signed up here and indicated you want to practice. I believe that practicing (live or dry fire) with whichever gun you choose WILL make you a safer shooter & one who is far less likely to drop a gun.

The loaded gun I most often handle outside a match is a hammerless .357 airweight. It stays in the safe or in my pocket - loaded. Have yet to drop it, but I believe the design makes it among the most safe.

[shred]

1911s without firing pin blocks can indeed go off when dropped onto concrete - the angle of impact, weight of firing pin, length of firing pin, and weight of firing pin spring are all factors.

So what gets shot in that case? Pretty much has to be the floor only. Avoid juggling 1911's upstairs on very thin concrete floors.

"it went off when I dropped it" runs a close second to "it just went off" in the school of excuses-for-why-I-had-an-AD-and-don't-want-to-admit-it.

Most every major law enforcement agency does drop tests. Major LE agencies pretty much allow all makes and models of quality pistols. I think that's probably a good endorsement for anything not made of Zamac.

[jixi290]

Many thanks to all who contributed your invaluable knowledge, expertise, and good humor. GREAT advice to not try to catch the gun if it's falling, as that could be a way to get an AD by catching the trigger! (Makes sense, probably a counter-intuitive impulse to consider practicing.)

But what if the gun is falling during an altercation? You just go for the grip and try to keep your index fingers to the side?

Heh, sorry Mooney -- a Glock .38 is a Glock you get to borrow for practice, that is too large for female civilian concealed carry and that you load with .38s because it's what you're shooting.

I don't plan on crashing my car or burning my supper on an everyday basis, but I still wear a seat-belt and set a timer... I understand that different psychology works for different folks, but I tend to plan for the bad as a matter of course. I sincerely appreciate your assistance with this important-to-me thought experiment.

G-ManBart, I want to steal your graphic! Did you design/draw it yourself? Is there an existing female analogue?

[Keith]

Heh, sorry Mooney -- a Glock .38 is a Glock you get to borrow for practice, that is too large for female civilian concealed carry and that you load with .38s because it's what you're shooting.

I don't plan on crashing my car or burning my supper on an everyday basis, but I still wear a seat-belt and set a timer... I understand that different psychology works for different folks, but I tend to plan for the bad as a matter of course. I sincerely appreciate your assistance with this important-to-me thought experiment.

Ironically, I can tell you that a fully loaded Glock model 38, in .45 GAP, will not fire when dropped on my concrete garage floor. I can still see it in slow motion...... the grip hitting the concrete and the big .45 bore staring back up at me. I think the seatbelt caught it and pulled it out of my blade-tech while getting out of my car.

[ima45dv8]

But what if the gun is falling during an altercation? You just go for the grip and try to keep your index fingers to the side?

To be honest, I'm not sure that's a question that can (or should) be answered here.

From the forum guidelines (available at the top of each page):

While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged.

You should also consider that the dynamics of such a situation provide far too many variables to predict what one would do if their gun dropped during a struggle.

[AikiDale]

The solution may be as suggested above to get a holster which properly secures the pistol; this will prevent any dropping.

Then learn how to dress to:

A. Look your best and

B. Conceal the weapon.

[Glen]

To add to AikiDale's post ....

C. Get as much knowledgeable instruction as you can.

D. Practice handling the gun, relentlessly, until it is a part of you,

just like another finger on your hand.

Familiarity breeds certainty.

Glen

Edited November 16, 2007 by Glen

[G-ManBart]

G-ManBart, I want to steal your graphic! Did you design/draw it yourself? Is there an existing female analogue?

Thanks...it cracked me up when I first saw it, so I'm glad others appreciate it as well. It's actually from a Simpsons episode that featured the X-Files....even though I never watched the X-Files and rarely watch TV at all. Here's a link to a site with other pics from the episode:

http://www.geocities.com/on_the_simpsons/x...s_simpsons.html R,

[jixi290]

I tell you, men get all the good graphics! (There is no female analogue on the Simpson's page. I suppose it wouldn't be as funny with a female-in-a-swimsuit-photo under the FBI badge, anyway. Unless it was something like the ogre-princess from Shrek... Thanks anyway, G-ManBart!)

I didn't mean to remotely trespass on the rules of decorous and proper discourse in this forum, and I do apologize if I could be interpreted to have crossed that line.

In this context, please allow me to re-frame my question in a different, similar scenario to better conform to the rule ima45devi8 brings to my attention (i.e., "While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged"): What if I drop the gun like a cell phone, or it slips out of a belly band I'm just trying out, or it gets knocked out of my hands by an earthquake or a really big sale at Lowe's, and my pet iguana/small neighborhood child reaches for it as it falls? Should my FIRST impulse be to (1) shove the iguana/child away from the gun (but what if it's a really big or slippery iguana/child?), (2) hit or kick the gun away from both me and the close-range iguana/child, or (3) try to grab the gun so the iguana/child doesn't, and screw the increased risk of AD?

Edited November 18, 2007 by jixi290

[Nik Habicht]

I tell you, men get all the good graphics! (There is no female analogue on the Simpson's page. I suppose it wouldn't be as funny with a female-in-a-swimsuit-photo under the FBI badge, anyway. Unless it was something like the ogre-princess from Shrek... Thanks anyway, G-ManBart!)

I didn't mean to remotely trespass on the rules of decorous and proper discourse in this forum, and I do apologize if I could be interpreted to have crossed that line.

In this context, please allow me to re-frame my question in a different, similar scenario to better conform to the rule ima45devi8 brings to my attention (i.e., "While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged"): What if I drop the gun like a cell phone, or it slips out of a belly band I'm just trying out, or it gets knocked out of my hands by an earthquake or a really big sale at Lowe's, and my pet iguana/small neighborhood child reaches for it as it falls? Should my FIRST impulse be to (1) shove the iguana/child away from the gun (but what if it's a really big or slippery iguana/child?), (2) hit or kick the gun away from both me and the close-range iguana/child, or (3) try to grab the gun so the iguana/child doesn't, and screw the increased risk of AD?

As the discussion is getting ridiculous, it's time to shut it down. This is not the proper venue for a continuous stream of wild "what if" scenarios.....