Carbon Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 The sixth annual Ephrata Sportsmen Spring Multi-gun match will be held Saturday April 12, 2008. The match is hosted by the ESC in central Washington state and run by Carl Carbon and Patrick Kelley. This is a one day USPSA match limited to 100 competitors. Signup sheets are available by E-mail. Please send a quick note to Ccarbon@scml.us and I'll get you on the mailing list. We offer rifle shots out to 400 yards. Natural desert terrain on a couple stages and permanent props. This year will have a buckshot only stage with moving paper targets similar to what was in the Nordic Championships this summer. Looking forward to seeing everyone again. Thanks Carl Carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Carl, Should be yet another great match. With the desert run and the barrel of fun stages this match is quite different. A buckshoot stage? Damn you for traveling the globe to find new and I am only guessing harder stages. I am guessing that I need to pattern my buckshot loads for what ever you have planned. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 Scott, It's not just the pattern, it's how many pellets you want to use. We had swinging no-shoots there that only required one pellet to be a hit. Hannu had gotten me some federal #4 so I choked way up to make sure I did not have a stray. We also had a 22 meter plate rack on a fast moving track. An easy 9 round stage turned into a reloading fest as it took most folks 15+ rounds to complete. There was no need to chrono the shotguns with 6" targets at 20 plus meters. I used a lot of full power #4 buckshot. We are planning on the same type of course in April. Moving paper with some far steel. It seems like so many shotgun stages lately end up as slow pistol stages with all close targets. Buckshot opens up a lot of options, 50 yard poppers, scored paper ect. I haven't seen a buckshot stage in the U.S. since the day's of the SOF match in Nevada. Patrick will be bringing his experience from England too. With only shotguns to play with the British are way ahead on stage design. It is fun to spend all winter thinking up new stage designs. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Merry Christmas everyone, The Ephrata Spring Multi-gun is just about full, so if you have a friend that's not signed up yet please let them know. Thanks Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I was hoping to make this match after reading about it in Front Sight (about 50 times...what can I say...we don't get much to read here). Sooo...it'll be 2009 for sure! Hope y'all have a great time and see you next year! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 (edited) Rich - looking forward to shooting with you in 2009! Bruce Edited December 21, 2007 by bgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Oh gosh. Thanks Bruce, but the only way I could make that match would be to take some leave. I'm squirreling away as much of that as possible as terminal leave for when I exit the Army. Thank you so much though. I'll be back in California in September and will definitely make the match next year. Thanks again. My BE.com family never ceases to amaze me. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Sorry folks the Ephrata Multi-gun is sold out. I am starting a waiting list for cancellations though. Thanks, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcurmudgeon Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) Carl distributed a copy of the IPSC A4 target. I made a .pdf file of it, just in case anybody needs that format. Target.pdf Edited February 6, 2008 by oldcurmudgeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigar45 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Hmmm. I am looking at buying up some buckshot for the match, and I came seeking advice on what to get. Carl, you mention #4 a lot, so I will definitely be stocking a good bit of that. Would you recommend I bring along some 0 or 00 too? I am just going to assume 3" shells is the way to go here... but unfortunately my shell strippers are all set for 2-3/4". Will 2-3/4 get me by? Any more suggestions on where to start with buckshot? C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 Craigar45 You do not need 3" shells. Most of the buckshot targets will be paper, scoring the best two hits. I mention #4 only as it's the minimum size required. The 27 pellet count of #4 is an advantage on a open target but what about trying to get next to a no-shoot? I am faced with the same dilemma. I have a 8 pellet 00 buck load that groups out of my X2 like a precision rifle. It has very little recoil but if I mess up and miss I have a smaller pattern to make up for my error. Or I can go with the Federal #4 that goes all over the place and I can hold off on the No-shoots.. That is the fun thing about shotguns, all the choices. Hope this helps. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigar45 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 It does help quite a bit... I am ordering up a mess of 4, 1, and 00 to start testing with. Looks like I am going to have to start experimenting with chokes though. See you at the match! C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Carl, is there going to be any slug stages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 There are no slugs needed for this years match. What is needed is.. 20 buckshot loads. Please bring twice that in case of a reshoot. 100 pistol. 100 shotgun. Trap loads will work fine. 100 rifle. Please make sure these loads are steel friendly. Thanks Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 first three gun match greenhorn..... talking with a tim at nordic (where I bought my shotgun ext tube) I decided to wait to purchase gear pertaining to the three gun until I have got my first one under my belt and have a look at what is out there and actually works, tim said carl is one of the fastest reloaders out there, so I'll be watching you carl! anyway I plan to use my normal gear I use at rifle league, which consists of a dump bag, magazine punches on a drop panal on my leg, and my pistol holster which is on the other leg, also in a drop panal design. at league, someone said that leg holsters are not allowed and only belt holsters can be used. does anyone know if this is fact? I am sure that using my dump bag to hold shotgun shells for reloading will be slow, as they will not be indexed correctly, but will it be too slow? I simply do not have any 3gun experience to compare with. the more I understand and read about 3gun, woohoo, the slower I feel someone also stated that some sort of cart would be a good idea for chauffeuring my gear around. again I am not sure how the stages/runs are conducted, does one leave their pitol/rifle/shotgun at a stage area until it is time for their turn? how much moving around do we do through-out the day from stage to stage? does each stage/run use only one gun or are there transitions? slings? looking for some 101 sorry for all the ?'s, thanks for any help! jammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgibson Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 first three gun match greenhorn..... talking with a tim at nordic (where I bought my shotgun ext tube) I decided to wait to purchase gear pertaining to the three gun until I have got my first one under my belt and have a look at what is out there and actually works, tim said carl is one of the fastest reloaders out there, so I'll be watching you carl! anyway I plan to use my normal gear I use at rifle league, which consists of a dump bag, magazine punches on a drop panal on my leg, and my pistol holster which is on the other leg, also in a drop panal design. at league, someone said that leg holsters are not allowed and only belt holsters can be used. does anyone know if this is fact? I am sure that using my dump bag to hold shotgun shells for reloading will be slow, as they will not be indexed correctly, but will it be too slow? I simply do not have any 3gun experience to compare with. the more I understand and read about 3gun, woohoo, the slower I feel someone also stated that some sort of cart would be a good idea for chauffeuring my gear around. again I am not sure how the stages/runs are conducted, does one leave their pitol/rifle/shotgun at a stage area until it is time for their turn? how much moving around do we do through-out the day from stage to stage? does each stage/run use only one gun or are there transitions? slings? looking for some 101 sorry for all the ?'s, thanks for any help! jammer I can tell you what little I know for what it is worth. With that being said, it is best to take advice from lots of people for a year or so, then decide what you think will work best for you. First of all, I don't know if you are going to be able to get away with the drop holster. The mag pouches are fine. Don't take this the wrong way, but no matter how you load your shotgun is going to be slow unless you practice it....A LOT, A LOT, A LOT...that is how Carl got fast I am sure. If you would like to borrow some gear, I have some 3 gun gear shell holders I would be happy to loan you for the match. By the way, my name is Travis Gibson and I'm coming over with MGM Targets. If you want to use some gear, ask Carl or Pat to point me out. As far as carts go, one that works pretty good is one you can get from Home Depot or Lowes or Oak Harbor Freight. It looks like a little red wagon on steroids! The one we have has fold down sides and great big nine inch pneumatic wheels. Again, don't buy anything until you see a bunch of them. Another thing that a lot of people use is what looks like a 3 wheeled baby stoller with bicycle tires from RuggedGear. As far as the stages go, you will start on a random stage and then go in order from there i.e. start on 4 then 5, 6, 7, etc. You will have to carry your gear from one stage to the next. The best advice I can give is don't worry about it too much, keep your eyes and ears open, be safe, and most of all, have a good time. See you in a couple of days. Adios, TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 first three gun match greenhorn..... Hi, Jammer! My name is Bruce... I'll be heading over from Everett on Friday morning, should be there Friday afternoon. If you happen to be there, too, would be delighted to introduce you around, and give you the 50-cent tour of the game. I'm not a top shooter, but I travel to a lot of matches and can give you a "pretty" good idea of what works, and what the common potholes are. In the meantime, here's a nickel-tour... -- this will be a "multi-gun" match. That's different from a "3-gun match". They both use the same guns (rifle, pistol, shotgun), but in a multi-gun match you may end up using two (or more) guns in a single stage. For example, you might draw your pistol, engage some close targets, then [safely] abandon it in a specified place, pick up your shotgun, shoot a bunch of steel targets, then switch to your rifle and [with your heart now beating with adrenilin!] settle behind a sandbag to engage a plate at a couple hundred yards. Fun stuff! -- Bring what you have. Consider your first handful of matches an investment in learning. By seeing what others have and do, and evaluating your own gear against what you see, you'll learn a lot. In the meantime, you'll be having a blast. -- Make yourself familiar with the USPSA multigun rules ( http://www.uspsa.org/rules/ ) ... in particular, the safety rules, and the division equipment rules. The "divisions" are divided by equipment type - for example, iron-sighted rifles compete only against other iron-sighted rifles... there are different divisions for rifles with optics, as well as pistols and shotguns with optics. The "easiest" thing to do, for your first multi-gun match, is bring guns that you *know* are reliable, bring the appropriate ammo, and don't worry about the rest. -- oh, and a tie-down or drop holster is allowed in multigun. No problem. See you there! bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Hey Bruce, While you were writing a reply I looked up the rule, MG 5.2.7. You beat me on knowlege and speed! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 You beat me on knowlege and speed! LOL. I cheated (I helped write 'em) B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 Bruce, Thanks for the input. Jammer you are in good hands with Travis and Bruce. They will get you thru this unscathed. As for gear and reloading methods just ask around. Lot's of good advice out there. I'll be there all day Friday and will have some time if you can make it early. As a side note, I just found out that IPSC dropped the A3 and A4 Buckshot targets in the January revision of the rules.... Bummer. It's still in the match, Too late to change it now. Buckshot on paper is a lot of fun but I suppose the potential for abuse is out there. The one nice thing about a buck only stage will be 25 yard plus steel. Usually you have to cater the the least common denominator which is a short, open choke shotgun with light loads. With Buck everyone can do a longer distance Texas Star. Looking forward to a fun match. Weather looks promising too. Carl Carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I just found out that IPSC dropped the A3 and A4 Buckshot targets in the January revision of the rules.... Bummer. It's still in the match, That's OK. I've already exchanged emails on the subject, and have it on good authority that the USPSA president is happy to grant "approved" status to the match despite the January changes. No problem having the buck-on-paper and still being a USPSA match. Cool, huh? Hey, speaking of which... Carl, will there be any place where I can function test a couple of things on Friday afternoon? In particular, I have some 8-pellet buck loads, and want to see if they "behave" the same as the 9-pellet loads through my chokes. (hey, nothing like being prepared *before* the match, right?) Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 If you would like to borrow some gear, I have some 3 gun gear shell holders I would be happy to loan you for the match. By the way, my name is Travis Gibson and I'm coming over with MGM Targets. If you want to use some gear, ask Carl or Pat to point me out. cannot get the "quote box" to work like I want.. TG,Bruce & Carl, thanks for the input! now that I understand multigun vs 3gun, I am still unsure if I will need slings, but it sounds like we "dump" one gun before using the next, so...no slings needed. Gibson I will look you up saturday morning. I finally made it the the range to get an idea where my pattern was for #4 buck. I have a 28" nova, using a .020 constriction choke(modified), I was shooting a 14" pattern @ 40ft. I could not shoot bird, so I will have to "wing it". some white tagets will/may have to perish. also sighted in two AR rifles today. one, a 14.5" M4 with BUIS and EOTech, two, a 16" superlight with 3x9. wow, at 100yds(furthest I could do as a non-member) a 6" circle on the target was the same size as the 2moa dot on the eotech......think I am using the 3x9 again the greenhorn thing....... I really have never shot beyond 100yds, so this 400yd stage will be a ?, not sure! jammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyblaze Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I just found out that IPSC dropped the A3 and A4 Buckshot targets in the January revision of the rules.... Bummer. It's still in the match, That's OK. I've already exchanged emails on the subject, and have it on good authority that the USPSA president is happy to grant "approved" status to the match despite the January changes. No problem having the buck-on-paper and still being a USPSA match. Cool, huh? Hey, speaking of which... Carl, will there be any place where I can function test a couple of things on Friday afternoon? In particular, I have some 8-pellet buck loads, and want to see if they "behave" the same as the 9-pellet loads through my chokes. (hey, nothing like being prepared *before* the match, right?) Bruce Bruce, hey question what buckshot # do you recommend going with? I'm heading over Friday night is there a hotel close to the range any help will be appreciated? cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Bruce, hey question what buckshot # do you recommend going with? Hey, Bobby! I am *so* not-the-right-person to ask. I don't have a clue. I have some 000 and 00 loads, I know how they pattern out of my cylinder-bore 870, but no clue how they pattern through my "open" 1100. Hence the hope that there is a function-test area on Friday. I did a search on the forums, and from what I've gleaned, too much choke tends to produce flyers. The conventional wisdom is 000 (8 or 9 pellet) and a moderate choke (IC or LM) would be good. A couple of threads: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=60825 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32610 Note that in the last thread, two of the Shotgun Gods seem to really like #4 shot, but... that seems like an awful lot of pellets unless you really know your pattern. ymmv I'm heading over Friday night is there a hotel close to the range any help will be appreciated? Dunno. I think Floyd got us in the Travelodge on Basin. Last I heard, the Best Western was full, but that may have changed? Beyond that, the next best choices might be in Moses Lake - there are a bunch of hotels just off the freeway, but 20 mins from the range. See you there! bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyblaze Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Bruce, hey question what buckshot # do you recommend going with? Hey, Bobby! I am *so* not-the-right-person to ask. I don't have a clue. I have some 000 and 00 loads, I know how they pattern out of my cylinder-bore 870, but no clue how they pattern through my "open" 1100. Hence the hope that there is a function-test area on Friday. I did a search on the forums, and from what I've gleaned, too much choke tends to produce flyers. The conventional wisdom is 000 (8 or 9 pellet) and a moderate choke (IC or LM) would be good. A couple of threads: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=60825 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32610 Note that in the last thread, two of the Shotgun Gods seem to really like #4 shot, but... that seems like an awful lot of pellets unless you really know your pattern. ymmv I'm heading over Friday night is there a hotel close to the range any help will be appreciated? Dunno. I think Floyd got us in the Travelodge on Basin. Last I heard, the Best Western was full, but that may have changed? Beyond that, the next best choices might be in Moses Lake - there are a bunch of hotels just off the freeway, but 20 mins from the range. See you there! bruce thanks i appreciate the help!!! see ya soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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