Springfield .40 for Production

[aerosigns]

Okay guys,

I have toyed with the idea of getting a Production gun. My day job is switching to .40 Sig 226 DAK's.

After looking through the forums, I just don't think the Sig is the 'best' viable candidate. I have tried the M&P's, and XD's side by side, and the XD just points better for me.

I definitely want it in .40 for the obvious reason.

Since I have zero experience in Production which one is the best platform to start with. I was looking at the Custom Shop gun, but from the posts I have read it will blow me right out of the 'production' water with the frame mods, and magwell changes.

My thoughts were the 5" slide Tactical, then have a trigger job and adjustable sights added.

Help me before I do something stupid.

[steel1212]

If I was you I would contact Scot Springer at springerprecision.com or canyoncreekcustoms.com as they offer a production ready gun around 1K that has everything you need to run a XD in production.

If you don't reload and are going to be buying factory .40 to shoot production the gun will run 100% of the time. If you reload you won't be able to run under 140PF as the slide is just to heavy to get it to cycle reliably at low PF levals with the right spring to keep it in battery.

Even though your job is issueing 40s I would still go with a 9mm if your going the route of XD. The 9mm tac's slides are lighter and can run at lower PF levels. 9mm ammo is cheaper all around and you can get production ready ammo at minor PF off any shelf.

With all that said I made B class with my 40 tactical before I sold it to get my STIs. In the near future I'll be buying a production ready 9mm from Scott though as I love those XDs.

[R/T Performance]

Just picked up a9mm tac after having a 40 if you don't lighten the slide it is tough to get under 140

9mm so cheap even reloading I am head out ss and back to production

[aerosigns]

I do reload, however only in .45 acp right now. Shooting a Revo I have 100% brass retention so it's pretty cost effective. With the auto I figure on losing nearly 100% of my brass, much like my L-10 gun. With a frequent supply of once fired .40 brass, I figure I can reload pretty reasonably.

Having never reloaded .40 or 9, doesn't it work out about the same for cost buying off the shelf? I understand the whole tuning of the PF, and more accuracy, etc. But just based on cost.

You guys have brought up a point that I didn't know about with the whole slide lock issue. Do you think this is a .40 issue alone, or does slide length 4" vs 5" matter.

As far as Canyon Creek I shoot with Rich, and he would be an option. I also shoot monthly with the guys from the Springfield Custom shop, but I know there is a limit to what they are allowed to do.

Something that you didn't mention is which version do you prefer? Springfield has the tactical, extreme duty, etc. Any preference there?

Thanks

[steel1212]

We aren't talking about slide locking back, we are talking about the gun haveing enough pressure to cycle the slides at minor in the .40 tactial. The .40 service would be an option with its lighter slide or get the slide lightened internally, staying with in the rules, on the .40 tac. If you can get free brass that might off set the cost of bullets in 40 vs 9mm.

If you shoot with Rich at canyon creek then what the hell are you asking us questions for...he is a XD guru lol

[SteveU]

You guys have brought up a point that I didn't know about with the whole slide lock issue. Do you think this is a .40 issue alone, or does slide length 4" vs 5" matter.

(Hi everybody, first post)

The specific issue steel1212 is talking about is a wall he and I both hit while running XD40 tactical in production. I have been shooting an XD40 tac for production and for L10 for about a year now and am a C class shooter (moving up but don't expect much b/c I don't practice much). I reload. I have an aftermarket stainless steel guide rod and the stock spring.

Using either titegroup or clays, I found that my loads for 130-135 pf would stovepipe and fail to extract consistently. When I bumped the PF up to about 140 or so, the problem went away.

When I went down to a 16 lb recoil spring, the slide would cycle just fine, and the problem went away, but the 16 lb spring (in my experience) did not hold the slide in battery solidly enough to keep in ready to fire after a reload. When I mean is when I reloaded, the force of putting the new magazine in (any magazine, not just one) would jostle the slide out of battery by about 1-2 mm. When I pulled the trigger, an extremely light primer strike resulted, and it would cost 1-2 seconds to recover by manually cycling the slide. This was pretty consistent. I found that new Wolff 16 # springs out of the box would work, but after about 200 rounds the malfunctions would start.

When I went back to the stock (or an 18lb replacement spring) it would run well, but only above 140 pf.

There are some who shoot 130-135 pf with an XD 40 tactical and a 16 lb spring, but I think they just lucky. It seems to be right on the edge.

Slide lightening would probably work (internal) but I haven't tried it. I've seen Rich post on this issue in the past, he, I'm sure, could give you good info on this subject.

I did find that the lighter 40 Service (4") slide would cycle very well with the extremely light loads (120-135 pf) and could use a 16 lb or 18 lb replacement spring on a stainless steel guide rod (Don's Guide Rod) without any problem.

In short, I would recommend a XD 40 service for minor PF (125-135); XD 40 tactical for the longer sight radius/slightly better accuracy if you don't mind shooting about 140 pf. For really light production shooting at low cost, the XD 9mm is a good way to go.

Hope that helps.

Lastly, awesome forum. I amass a world of info just reading.

Steve

Edited November 13, 2007 by Surge

[aerosigns]

Rich is tough to get a few minutes with. Plus understandibly he has a product to sell.

I like to know real world experience, the slide issue as an example.

I have toyed with the idea of even shooting in .45 acp. A 230 gr bullet would only have to be doing <550 fps to make Minor, where the .40 has to make 850-1000 fps. I could just make a powder adjustment and not change anything else on my reloader.

But the .40 just seems to make sense so that I am working with a caliber that I earn my supper with.

[JoshF]

I'm not real sure why others are having trouble but I've been shooting a .40 Tactical for over a year now. My gun is still using a stock recoil spring and cycles my "bunny fart" loads just fine. Anyone that shoots with me knows I can count malfunctions this year on one hand out of 7,000+ rounds I've shot. My load chronoed 131 @ Kansas State Match and 136 @ Area 3. Also as others have said the light recoil spring definately causes lockup/iginition issues in the 40 Tactical, stick with stock. My load is below if you are interested.

Berrys 180gr RS or FP (depending on availability)

3.5gr Titegroup

WSP Primer

1.125 OAL

Very nice load with minimal issues. However I probably will be picking up a 9 Tactical this winter as the 30% cheaper bullets just can't be overlooked any longer

[aerosigns]

This is all great stuff so far guys.

It's really helping me to make an informed decision for a change, instead just pressing my nose against the glass, and going OOOOOH!

[Loves2Shoot]

With the 5" version, I prefer to lighten my slides. You can run the 16# spring with our reduced power stricker spring reliably. They are very soft in .40 if you run them light.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Loves2Shoot

[aerosigns]

Scot,

Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.

As much as I would like to say money is no object, in reality money is an object for most of us.

For history I am a Sr. Armorer trained by Blackwater, Bushmaster, Armalite, Smith & Wesson, Sig, and so on.

I mainly shoot Revolver and am currently an A class shooter. I did all of my own modifications on my 625's, so I do have the ability for some work, but not machine shop type work.

If I wanted to start out with a 5" .40 XD for USPSA Production Class, and break it down into 3 stages -

What would you recommend that needs to be immediately done?

What would be my next step?

What would be needed to complete a top of the line project?

Thanks again.

[Loves2Shoot]

pm sent

Edited November 14, 2007 by Loves2Shoot

[Flexmoney]

I definitely want it in .40 for the obvious reason.

I don't get what the obvious reason is ?

Free brass?

Free ammo?

40 bullets seem to be running aroun $30 more per k than 9mm. That should wipe out any free brass issues? (and, you ought to be able to get some of your brass back..you shouldn't count on losing 100% of it)

[Hank Ellis]

I run a XD-40 Tact in Production.

It took a bit of tinkering to get it to run with 130 to 135pf loads. Slide lightening and dropping the recoil spring from the stock 18lb to 16lb did the trick. DO NOT go any lower than the 16lb spring as it will not have enough oomph to reliably push the slide into battery. In fact with a 14lb spring you can shake the gun and the slide will pop out of battery.

If I had to do it over again I'd get a XD-9 Tact from Canyon Creek and be ready to rock.

[DougCarden]

Aerosigns gets factory .40 to shoot at work, and most probably some brass in the bargain..... me too......

DougC

[mshotwell]

+1 Tactical 40. I can't wait to finally shoot a bottom feeder. Whats next Para or STI?

Shotwell

[aerosigns]

I am honored that the big dogs have entered the discussion now!

Flex - I was just listening to a story about you the other day. I have been listening to Matt Burkett's radio show on CD. Steve Anderson was relating a story about your different techniques.

Doug is right that I get ammo at a very discounted rate, and brass is pretty easy as well. Another reason is myself and my officers will shooting .40. I want to become more proficient with how that ammo behaves, and (who knows why) it gives them confidence when they see me shooting the same ammo as them.

Flex, I know I won't lose all my brass (shoot L-10 too), but it sure seems like it after getting it all back in Revo.

Now we will be shooting Sig's instead of XD's. I didn't plan to hobble myself to much, but I don't think most of them will see the difference. I couldn't find anyone who really felt that the Sig 226 DAK was going to be an equal choice with the XD.

And then to see Mike come out of his lurking mode is something.

Now don't get all giddy on me. I'm not giving up on the Revo, I am still working hard for my 'M' card. Just a couple of more %

But if I'm going to be instructing black bottom feeders now, I ought to be competing with one as well. Plus I know that you have already sold yours, so I won't have to compete with you.

[steel1212]

sounds like to me your going to be running box factory ammo right? If that is the case then a XD 40 will run fine with a 22 pound spring as well. Get sights, a trigger job and have fun.

[mshotwell]

You competting with a auto, next think you'll see me with a new bullseye gun. Trust me that S&W 41 in the save is Reba's gun, not dad's new gun. I can't wait your not going to know what to do with all that extra ammo, in the gun.LOL

Shotwell

[aerosigns]

I figure I will only load 6 rounds in each mag. You know I'm going to try to reload then anyway.

Thread drift - Doug & Mike - Thought of you guys the other night. Each year we fire our qualification course at night. .2 candlepower or less. I passed the qualification course with a perfect score. Then I was going shoot again for fun, and one of the guys asked me if I could do that with my left hand. So I tried to be like Mike. Apparently I can. Perfect score Left handed as well.

By the way, anyone reloading 9 or 40? I was looking at what Wally world charges for ammo tonight.

$7.97 for a box of 9

$9.97 for a box of 40

$11.47 for a box of .45

I know that I am reloading 50 rounds of .45 w/ 230 gr. for $5.53.

Everyone - this has been some great information. I had originally planned to get one of the XD's from the custom shop until I found out it's not legal for production. Then I thought I should ask some guys who know before I drop a wad of cash.

[Hank Ellis]

I had originally planned to get one of the XD's from the custom shop until I found out it's not legal for production. Then I thought I should ask some guys who know before I drop a wad of cash.

Rich at Canyon Creek will build you a Production legal gun. $1025 + ship to FFL. http://www.canyoncreekcustom.com/Production_Ready.html

As I said earlier, if I had to do it over again I'd be giving Rich a call and have a 9mm on the way.