grim death Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I need some help with an optic sight for my shotgun. I am shooting a GRAMS ENG. worked and tuned Benelli M1 90 super field with a 21" barrel. I have never used optics on a shotgun before, but with as fast and smooth as my gun now runs, I want to try and see if I can shoot some what close to the guns potential. Any input on sights or optics ( pros or cons ) would be great. Thanks, grim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Grim, If you go to TTI's website (tti-intl.com) there's a link to a shooting tips section. I posted a review of whether or not to put optics on a shotgun. Check it out. It doesn't go into a lot a specifics about equipment, but I think it will start you in the right direction. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Here is the link to the Shooting Tips. Here is the link to the Shootgun Optics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I'd go with a Holosight, Aimpoint or an Optima style sight. A dot is not essential on an open shotgun. I feel that they make little difference on steel targets using shot. However, they are a real advantage when using slugs. Dots are de rigueur on most (but not all) of the better shooters' shotguns. There has been a real trend towards the smaller optima style sights mounted in the rib. They can be mounted very low so you can have a proper checkweld. This is probably the ideal setup. Check out JP Enterprises, they've pioneered this setup. If memory serves correctly Voigt, Holmes and Bendnorz use this setup. Cmores are too high off the bore, causing the shooter to lift their face off the stock. Aimpoints can be mounted lower and are probably the way to go for a traditional dot. If you go this route you may consider a stock w/ an adjustable comb. Again, if memory serves correctly, Jerry Miculek uses a Holosight and a stock w/an adjustable comb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Grim: The ideal place to mount an optima/doctor/JP sight is on the flat surface at the rear of the barrel just where the rib starts to go up. When I did mine I just used the optima with out any mount. Milled a slot down the middle of the under neath to set the sight low, and drilled two holes to screw the whole set up down!!! Perfect sight heighth, good cheek weld, and very light sight!! for open guns this is the set up! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Agreed on the Optima/J-Point for an open shotgun. In the last year, and a half I have changed from a ghost ring, to an OKO (European C-more type sight), and am now running an Optima. Lower is better here, fer sure! After a bit of experimentation, I've got mine further out on the barrel, just back from the end of the handguard (I have a piece of rail with a deep slot milled out, that mounts wherever I want it on the rib). This let's me use the "flip'n burn" method of re-loading without having the sight right in the way. It also doesn't hang up on a sling as much out there (of course, this depends on where you attach the front of the sling). Where most folks mount the Optima at the start of the rib flat spot is right where I roll the shotgun for speed stick, and hand loading. If'n ya don't load this way, then that position will work very well. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 George: GOOD POINT! I hadn't thought about flipping the gun to reload! Since I don't use "speed loaders" when I run open, I forget that that is where one would hold the shotgun when using those! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Cmon Kurt, speedloaders are a necessary evil when shooting open! I'm shocked SHOCKED that you consider the Colorado weakhand load to be so fast as to suffice in open class. One thing that I noticed in Texas is that very few of the open shooters were really proficient with speedloaders. There were alot of ugly loads, with shells and tubes and plungers being scattered all of the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Kelly: Thank you for answering your own post!! Ugly reloads with speed loader tubes!!! Well I never!!! For reals though, quit being shock..ed. When the shotgun holds that many rounds it is really easy to load 2s and 3s as you go, which is actually faster for me than those tubey things! Also for many years they were baned at our club, as one guy blew up his shotgun and arm durring a match with those tubey things. Just this year they were allowed again! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I have a piece of weaver rail that I can mount on the Benelli rib as-needed. At the Texas 3 Gun I used an Aimpoint and it was great for the slug event, good on steel and killed the aerial targets. The guys from here using Browning Golds have C-mores mounted directly to their receivers and adjustable combs. Ugly speedloads at the Texas 3 Gun is an understatement. You forgot to mentioned the associated golf language that went along it. Mike Finch Team Sidearmor Leadheads Bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Ugly speed loads is an understatement. At least with Benny Hill's Benelli, I was able to do a speedload no problemo. Of course that was after breaking an 1100 and a ALS 2100. Turned it into a 5 gun match. As for optics, I really like the cut through the rib mount that JP is doing with their JPoint. Waiting for the one from Bevin Grams. Get the dot down on the rail where the bead is. That seems to be the most natural and fastest. Doesn't get in the way either.. Take care, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grim death Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 Now with the different options on the optics,I can see how benificial it is to mount it as low as possible. It seems that shooting slugs at long ranges they would be great, but what about medium range steel and flyers? How hard was it to get used to sighting with a dot on fast and moving targets? I know this is the way that I have to go to be competetive,but I'm just a 'tard that has only shot with a rib( I also shoot a limited pistol ). What about a Docter sight? I have seen how low Beven Grams is mounting them and they look cool. grim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 It's not that dots are at a disadvantage on steel or flyers but they don't really provide much of an advantage. I love a dot when shooting skeet or sporting clays, which are much more challenging that the ole pepper popper launched birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Brother Grim: Go back to my first post and reread the part about OPTIM/DOCTOR/JP ( commonly known as the J Point). These are essentially the SAME sight! The main difference is the Doctor is an aluminum frame and the Optima/JP is a carbon fiber frame. they are the same size EXACTLY. The Doctor is just a hair differen in the mounting screw spacing. It takes hardly any time at all to get use to as it is similer to shooting a "bead" on the rib. As for this being the way you "have to go" to be competitive, I disagree. Many an open shotgun match has been won with a bead sighted shotgun, as kelly mentioned, dots are not essential on an open shotgun! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grim death Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 Kelly When you started shooting sporting clays with a dot did you find that it gave you tunnel vision on multiple birds? I tried a holo sight ( no optic just a metal sight ring) when I was duck hunting and it was hard to look outside the ring to find another target. How can you not love a sport where one of the top shooters is getting his gun modified to be just like a complete beginners? Matt my gun was doen first at Grams Eng. so that means that your gun will be just like mine. grim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grim death Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 Kurt- What about the differance between a glass lens and a plastic lens? Do either one distort the sight picture from center to the side?I also thought someone told me ( and I could be wrong ) that Docter sights had just come out with a new style? grim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Kurt, The Docter and the Optima/Jpoint are NOT the same size. The docter is longer and will not fit the mounts for the Optima properly. The screw placement is the same. When I ordered my new shotgun from JP I discussed the Docter with John. He said that the extra weight of the Docter would put too much stress on the epoxy used to attach his mount to the barrel. You can use the Optima mount on the docter but about a quarter inch of the sight hangs over the rear of the mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Ok grim, Just because you live close enough to and shoot at the same club that I do, doesn't mean that you can get a new red dot on your shotgun befor Matt does. You just get the advantage of seeing the new prototype stuff first. I have been working on mounting the Optima/FirePoint, (now called "J-Point", available from JP Enterprizes) and the Doctor Sight onto the Benelli vent rib barrels. Kurtm has mentioned the construction difference between the two and how they mount, though I do think that the Doctor Sight has a slightly smaller window then the Jpoint. Either one will work fine on a shotgun. The Doctor does have a glass lens where the Jpoint has a plastic lens. JP Enterprises does make a mount for the Remington barrels to fit a Jpoint to. The fent rib on the Benelli is taller then the Remington, so this allows for the Jpoint/Doctor to be mounted low enough to be able to see the entire vent rib, front bead and the red dot all at the same time. This mount I am working on will require machining of the barrel, (removing a part of the fent rib, drilling and taping for screws). Remember grim, Matt gets his first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grim death Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 Beven- So thats how its going to be huh? When you mount the optics on the gun how will it hold up to the recoil of a shotgun.With the mount that you have made I know it will stay mounted a lot better than epoxy but how will the dot hold up? grim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 grim, They hold up just fine. There is ackually alot less stress on the dot from a shotgun then there is from being mounted on the slide of a pistol. I have just made the switch from a tube sight to a Doctor on my pistol. So far so good. I love the way the gun points now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Chris: Both of these sights have gone through about 6 changes each. My old Optima and Old Doctor are exactlyt the same size!, but the mounting holes don't line up. Imagin my chagirn as I picked up a new Doctor and held it up to my old Optima.....!/4" different and the holes do line up. Thanks for the up date! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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