johncrighton Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 OK, I understand the "you get what you pay for" gig. I've spent a LOT of money over the years buying various optics for rifles and carbines. I have learned my lesson regarding most cheap optics. I now have Zeiss for my 3x-12x needs on longer range rifles, and have EOTechs on my carbines. However, I want some capability regarding medium range. I tried the Millett DMS-1 but for me it was just too heavy. So, do any of you, in competitions, use an Aimpoint or EOtech with a magnifier? If so, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) I don't use on but have shot that setup. What I do know is that by the time you buy the mounts it will be heavier than the Millet. So if your concern is weight there aren't many options that offer magnification that would be lighter than the millet or scopes that are similar. Here are some weights for reference. Millet 1X4 18 oz Meopta 1X4 19 oz US optics SN4 26 oz GG&G, TPS, Seekins aluminun 30MM rings 3-4 oz EO Tech Mag w/FTS mount 11oz EO Tech 512 w/2N batts 11oz Total 22 Oz Edited November 7, 2007 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncrighton Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 I don't use on but have shot that setup. What I do know is that by the time you buy the mounts it will be heavier than the Millet. So if your concern is weight there aren't many options that offer magnification that would be lighter than the millet or scopes that are similar. Here are some weights for reference. Millet 1X4 18 oz Meopta 1X4 19 oz US optics SN4 26 oz GG&G, TPS, Seekins aluminun 30MM rings 3-4 oz EO Tech Mag w/FTS mount 11oz EO Tech 512 w/2N batts 11oz Total 22 Oz ACK! Hmm, this sort of sucks now, doesn't it? I just didn't care for the quality of the Millett. I wonder if I could use my Sightron S2 1.5x-6x scope? I love the glass, and maybe 1.5x isn't so bad with 2 eyes open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) I definitely understand your search for an optic that is high quality, reasonably priced, etc etc. I do think the true 1x variables are the best solution. I know a lot of guys run the fixed 3.5 and 4 power Trijicons but I haven't had any luck making them work for me. I also have a hard time with 1.5x when I shoot both eyes open as it makes me feel a little off balance, works great for some though. It seems like a really good balance between the inexpensive scopes at around the $300 mark and the great quality but expensive US Optics $1500 or S&B $2000 is the Meopta. It is a true 1X, has great glass, generous FOV and eye relief, and pretty good illumination in the $700 range. As far as weight goes, the higher quality glass and adjustments cost you in weight. The S&B weighs 20 oz and the US Optics (which is damn near indestructible) is even heavier. Good luck, and keep us posted on your journey Craig Edited November 7, 2007 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I definitely understand your search for an optic that is high quality, reasonably priced, etc etc. I do think the true 1x variables are the best solution. I know a lot of guys run the fixed 3.5 and 4 power Trijicons but I haven't had any luck making them work for me. I also have a hard time with 1.5x when I shoot both eyes open as it makes me feel a little off balance, works great for some though. It seems like a really good balance between the inexpensive scopes at around the $300 mark and the great quality but expensive US Optics $1500 or S&B $2000 is the Meopta. It is a true 1X, has great glass, generous FOV and eye relief, and pretty good illumination in the $700 range. As far as weight goes, the higher quality glass and adjustments cost you in weight. The S&B weighs 20 oz and the US Optics (which is damn near indestructible) is even heavier. Good luck, and keep us posted on your journey Craig If you have the money SB or US optics is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 1.5x6 will work, better for some than others, if you already have it, try it. The Weaver 1x3x20 is a better choice than 3 of what you listed and a bunch lighter.---------------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I would second the Weaver 1-3x20. It's an outstanding scope for the money, plus if weight is a big concern. Weaver- 8.5oz. Check out the rest of the specs. http://www.swfa.com/pc-2321-256-weaver-1-3...ifle-scope.aspx Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHELLFISH17 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I use the Meopta z-plex 1-4 on my gamer and the weaver 1-3 on my 22 upper for practice. Both are great and reasonably priced. If you need to save a few bucks like I did, go with the z-plex(cross hair) retical instead of the k-dot, should save $150 or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncrighton Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 I use the Meopta z-plex 1-4 on my gamer and the weaver 1-3 on my 22 upper for practice. Both are great and reasonably priced. If you need to save a few bucks like I did, go with the z-plex(cross hair) retical instead of the k-dot, should save $150 or better. I read a lot of good things about the weaver, and it appears (other than the reticle) that it meets some of my criteria. I've read a few things about the Simmons ProDiamond (shotgun?) scope and the Bushnell Banner - I guess these are like 1-4x20 scopes? I don't mind paying the $150 for the Weaver, though if the ProDiamond or Banners with their circle-plex or diamond reticles could also do as good of a job (at least at first, for practice) I would consider that. So, let's try this - recommendations and reasons (and problems) for a variable optic (1-3 or 1-4), lightweight, at or under $150 Weaver V3 1-3 Simmons Master Series ProDiamond 1.5-5x20 Bushnell Banner 1-4x32 Rifle Scope Matte Circle-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHELLFISH17 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Weaver V3 1-3 Simmons Master Series ProDiamond 1.5-5x20 Bushnell Banner 1-4x32 Rifle Scope Matte Circle-X I've only tried the weaver so I might be biased. I have had the Leupold 1.5-5 mrt illuminated and it was a fine scope but that 1 power makes a huge difference for me so I wouldn't even consider the 1.5 simmons. As far as the Bushnell, you usually you get what you pay for and all good 1-4 powers start at 300 so I would say that scope($70) isn't very good. So that leaves the weaver which is cheaper because it only goes to 3 power and is a 1" tube so the price makes sence. I vote weaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory_k Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 So, do any of you, in competitions, use an Aimpoint or EOtech with a magnifier? If so, what do you think? I use an aimpoint w/ 3x mag. If I was building a new rifle this setup would not be on it. the dot is nice for close work, but the 3x mag makes my 4moa bot 12moa, makes it a bitch on small targets. Cost of total setup is not worth it when you can get a 1x3 vari scope for much much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Conley Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) Valdada IOR 1.1x4??? Might be what your looking for. I think the weight is 16 oz and it will fit nicely on a Larue SPR-E mount. I have shot them before and they are very nice. I'll get one this winter for sure. You right abour the Millet DMS-1. I can't get mine to hold zero to save my life. Bummer. Nice reticle but I don't like the rest of it. A nickles worth, Chris C. Edited November 7, 2007 by Chris Conley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I used the 1.5x5 pro diamond Simmons for 2 or 3 years and there was a lot of value there but they were discontuned and the later ones are not the same(fov sucks). I tried the EOteck, fast, but past 100 yds I like some mag. The little Bushnells just suck. I have a 1.5x5 Meopta and its a very good scope but I like a 1x. I have a Millet 1x4 DMS and at its best its just ok. I have a 1x3 Weaver and just keep coming back to it, after 3 or 4 years of mistreatment it did lose ability to hold zero and focus but Weaver replaced it. I think I may try a Horus Vision Talon 1x4, Benny has one and the more I play with it the better I like it.--------------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I use and like the Meopta Kdot. Having said that the little Weaver is probably the best scope for the money (it is what I have on my backup). I had the bushnell for a while and the one I had was not a true 1 power scope. In addition I found that the cross hairs were too thick for my use on the little self-resetting mini poppers that the local guys like to use. I had the IOR 1.1-4. It had a nice reticle (didn't like the horseshoe above the aiming point though), and was bright as hell. It was built like a tank and the adjustments were rock solid. On the down side it was built like a tank and so was heavy. In addition the one I had suffered from insufficient eye relief to let me mount it far enough forward to take advantage of the 1.1X As to other scopes you might think about. Kahles Helia C 1.1-4 is a very nice piece of glass. CDNN has them on sale right now. It weighs about 14.5 oz. The NightForce 1-4 is also very nice (though about $1200 street price). It weighs about 17oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I used the 1.5x5 pro diamond Simmons for 2 or 3 years and there was a lot of value there but they were discontuned and the later ones are not the same(fov sucks). I tried the EOteck, fast, but past 100 yds I like some mag. The little Bushnells just suck. I have a 1.5x5 Meopta and its a very good scope but I like a 1x. I have a Millet 1x4 DMS and at its best its just ok. I have a 1x3 Weaver and just keep coming back to it, after 3 or 4 years of mistreatment it did lose ability to hold zero and focus but Weaver replaced it. I think I may try a Horus Vision Talon 1x4, Benny has one and the more I play with it the better I like it.--------------Larry Larry, Which reticle does Benny have in the Talon, the H50 (illuminated crosshairs) or the H47 (illuminated dot)? Also, Have any of you used the Nightforce 1-4 NSX? Two of the guys I shoot with have them, one with the NP-R2 reticle and the other with the FC-2 reticle. I've shot them, prefer the NP-R2, but I'm looking for opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncrighton Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 I use and like the Meopta Kdot. Having said that the little Weaver is probably the best scope for the money (it is what I have on my backup). I had the bushnell for a while and the one I had was not a true 1 power scope. In addition I found that the cross hairs were too thick for my use on the little self-resetting mini poppers that the local guys like to use. I had the IOR 1.1-4. It had a nice reticle (didn't like the horseshoe above the aiming point though), and was bright as hell. It was built like a tank and the adjustments were rock solid. On the down side it was built like a tank and so was heavy. In addition the one I had suffered from insufficient eye relief to let me mount it far enough forward to take advantage of the 1.1X As to other scopes you might think about. Kahles Helia C 1.1-4 is a very nice piece of glass. CDNN has them on sale right now. It weighs about 14.5 oz. The NightForce 1-4 is also very nice (though about $1200 street price). It weighs about 17oz. I had the same problems with the IOR - I wear glasses and like long eye relief, and I just couldn't get a good sight picture (I had to be "perfect" in my alignment behind the scope) and it was rather heavy. I had the same problem with a Nikon tactical scope as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Mike, its the H50 crosshairs, its a nice glass but the reticle is a bit busy, but I may get one.-----------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Pic of WEAVER V3 and Millet DMS the WEAVER V3 is much lighter..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Mike, its the H50 crosshairs, its a nice glass but the reticle is a bit busy, but I may get one.-----------Larry Thanks Larry. Maybe he'll bring it to Benning and I can see it. No one around here has one. It looks busy in the picture on the website but it's not as busy as the H25's I've used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luxor Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Pic of WEAVER V3 and Millet DMSthe WEAVER V3 is much lighter..... Derek45, Which LaRue mount is that in the picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 It's marked - SPR-E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Mike, the Talon will probaly be on his AR at Benning.------------------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Good. Maybe I can run a few rounds through it too. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Derek45, Which LaRue mount is that in the picture? LaRue SPR-E , holds zero, and gives enough eye refief http://www.laruetactical.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncrighton Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 Derek45, Which LaRue mount is that in the picture? LaRue SPR-E , holds zero, and gives enough eye refief http://www.laruetactical.com/ Definitely a weight difference - LOL. I just wish it had some other reticle options, but I can get used to it I guess. I wonder if anyone at WEAVER knows just how popular their V3 is, or if they could tweak it a little and corner this market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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