Specific firearms trainig for Active shooters

[Pdoyle]

For any LEO out there and those of you have had a influence on training them, what would you like to see in a 2 day curriculum for Shooting techniques involved in Active shooter scenarios. All active shooter curriculums that I know of have dealt with response, staffing, staging areas, movment, etc, but no actual time on the range working with these techniques in live fire (Simmunitions is limited on shooting skills). What do you guys and gals think of a individual and specific course centered around high performance shooting skills for LEO and Active shooters. What kind of skills would you as interested shooters like to incorporate? This would be primarily centered around a rifle and handgun skills. Please keep in mind I am not bashing LEO's as shooters, as I am one, but looking for a way to advance the knowledge base for us to deal with this growing and on going trend. I have been asked by my Chief to incorporate a 16 - 20 hour block of live fire drills, to incorporate with our Active Shooter Training, which is 16 hours already with class room and force on force. I have been working on this for about the last 9 months informally. I have been able to train with: Bennie Cooley, Todd Jarrett, Rob Leatham, Ron Avery,Matt Mink, Mike Seeklander. Each has very unique base of information and knowledge to pass on, as do all of you. I am interested in what you guys think as well. Thanks a million in advance.

pat

[Sac Law Man]

Pdoyle,

I have taken several active shooter classes and I agree most have dealt with responding, staging and movement. I felt the classes I have taken have been benificial in that they give us direction and ensure we are all on the same page. As far as shooting techniques, I think shooting on the move, , making good use of cover, transitioning from Law enforcement rifle (LER) to handgun and target identification are paramount. these techniques could easily take up a whole day of training.

Hope this Helps

Edited November 1, 2007 by Sac Law Man

[Pdoyle]

Pdoyle,

I have taken several active shooter classes and I agree most have dealt with responding, staging and movement. I felt the classes I have taken have been benificial in that they give us direction and ensure we are all on the same page. As far as shooting techniques, I think shooting on the move, , making good use of cover, transitioning from Law enforcement rifle (LER) to handgun and target identification are paramount. these techniques could easily take up a whole day of training.

Hope this Helps

Helps a bunch. Thanks a million.

pat

[dcarter]

Pdoyle, Does your department practice "Q.U.A.D."? Again this is in the area of responding and movement but it works well as long as your people train on it. I agree with Sac Law Man, any type of shooting on the move and transitioning skills can do nothing but help. Our department just started requiring indepth shooting on the move during requals. I think it is a huge step in the right direction. Very few fire fights take place with both feet planted on the ground. I know mine won't be! Be safe!

[DougCarden]

Pat, you are indeed a lucky bastard...... ( I will be lucky if I get two hours on duty this winter break when the schools are closed.....)

I would walk a predetermined number of areas, or schools if that is your priority like ours is...yeah, we may end up doing Walmart if the stuff hits the fan, but our main priority is schools.

Hit the schools with a rangefinder, take digital photos, etc.

Go to the range and set up simulated hallways, doorways, etc and then put your targets at realistic distances that will be in the areas you will be working. See if you can find a bunch of the clothing dummys that stores have set up, they get rid of them from time to time. Dont forget to have sirens, bullhorns, etc going off to really screw with the guys and gals. If you could prerecord a bunch of kids screaming and yelling for help that would do wonders as well.....

We designate that the first three LE responders at the scene hit the bricks and go on the search and destroy mission. Mix and match your people. Dont let them get into their comfortable "groups" and take it easy. Mix and match, mess with them. You will be surprised how many people will excel.....

Good luck,

DougC

[smokshwn]

+ 1 to much of what has been said before especially rotating teams/groups/partners often in order to increase the ability to operate with a variety of people.

You can take a camcorder, go to an area high school, have the drama club help you to film several scenes. Kids in the hallway running and screaming, shielded hostage taker in classroom, walking the halls on S&D, all shot from a first person perspective. You can then form up your trainees in front of a wall with a projector behind them showing the film you made and let them act out the scenarios you set up. We use the paper from a photograpers background wrapped around two upright poles as our wall on the range and it also allows you to shoot at the projection.

Good luck, Craig

Edited November 1, 2007 by smokshwn

[dirtypool40]

I'd give them the tools (stable but fluid stance / base, skills to hit what they are aiming at, the whole "see what you need to see" concept) then I'd slowly make things higher and higher workload so they realize, and trust that doing the basics well will serve them well in "advanced" scenarios.

I would pull them out of the slow fire, qual line, but give them simple, solvable scenarios.

Look at how we bring new shooters along in IDPA / IPSC. We simplify and only let them solves small bites at a time. Before long they only need a start position and a beep and they flow and throw lead at things that need perforation.

Maybe set up small stages, but don't keep "score" only give critiques. I like the added stress of colleagues, peer pressure, performance anxiety, and scenarios that vary a little each time.

have fun!!!

[benelli2]

Not sure where they are now but the guys that started Combative Concepts, then brought the Surefire Institute to life, then left doing things on their own, used to teach an outstanding active shooter class, concentrating on shooting on the move, search techniques, and force on force scenarios,

I know they were teaching a lot around Missouri several years back but not sure where they got off to now, lost touch, good people, all about being on the range not in a classroom, but had very well thought out classes

jc

Ok, found a link to Ken, http://www.strategosintl.com/staff_ken.html

Edited November 1, 2007 by benelli2

[wlktheduk]

Pdoyle: one other item that you might consider in setting up the CoF's and exercises is to make sure that your students use the actual equipment that they would have available to them in an active shooter incident.

While running a CoF with a carbine equipped with an ACOG/Holosight/whatever, using a load bearing vest with single point sling, reloading from magazines from a thigh rig, etc...is tacti-cool, hi-speed/low drag etc fun IF that is not the gun and gear that the patrol officer has in the trunk, then the officer isn't really learning how to deal with the problem.

Making sure that your officers train in the uniform, duty holster and belt w/radio/baton/OC/cuffs/magazines etc, is very useful in showing both the strengths and weaknesses of the gear you (normally) have been issued.

Good luck.

[dvc40jim]

Any one who is in LE or works with would agree any amount of shooting over and above the minimum accepted standard is a step in the right direction.

Shooting on the move drills with a focus on what I always term as "surgical precision speed shooting" will always work out well.

One of the things we always worked on was what we termed "KIMS" games, Keep in Memory System. Colors, shapes, numbers, pictures or any number of other things can be utilized. In virtually every case we aren't going to have a good description of the Active Shooter, but the practice combined with KIMS brain work will help to provide the flexible professional who responds.

Another very important aspect that is often overlooked is communication practice combined with shooting! It's easy to see if you set up a simple man on man, 1 guy on one side and 2, 3 or 4 on the other side. The one guy has the advantage in most cases since he does not have to communicate his intent to anyone... if the others can't articulate the plan then they will get beat. With the Active Shooter training I have done, often the 1st reponders are not a "team" by design but are tasked with closing with and then eliminating a threat........ communication will go a long way. Another training event can be combining KIMS like setups with communication like drills.

In most if not all of the LE training I do, I keep score in a lighthearted sort of way. It serves to add stress in and of itself and when combined with other stressors it helps to build up to an end of day event that can be an eye opener... I believe that Departments and Leadership need to realize the legitimate need for training... but I also believe that the individual Officer has to be shown the need for more training. Plus the more folks we get out there shooting the better!

[Pdoyle]

Really happy with all the responses. All this information is going to be used to put together an Active Shooter Response Shooting Curriculum. Gonna try to make it seperate from the actual response portion. Really want to push the envelope on the capabilties and abilities of "most" LEO. With the challenge comes knowledge and growth. Thanks again.

Pat