5.45 X 39

[Joe4d]

Was cruising around Midway and noticed the price of 5.45X 39 ammo like 1/3rd the price of 5.56. Hummm got me thinking, I dont have any round drawings but I wonder if any one is making a 5.45 AR upper that can handle steel case surplus ammo not sure of the case but I think it is simply a necked down 7.62X39

[HoMiE]

It's not a neck-down 7.62x39, it has a smaller base. And the bullets are slightly smaller than the .224 bullets.

[Chills1994]

What does the 5.45 (AK-74) stuff power factor at?

[caspian guy]

If you look in the forums over at ar15.com there has been a lot of talk about this. I believe that some of the folks over there have taken AK 74 barrels and with some machine work fitted a headspace extension, and a custom gas block to create a 5.45 AR. Not sure what they are using for a bolt probably a 5.56 with the face opened up or maybe a 6.8 SPC bolt?

Alexander Arms used to make a barrel in a caliber they called .21 Genghis that would use 5.45 ammo. I don't believe that they catalog it anymore but if you could find one that might be an option.

[Chills1994]

I was doing a search for "Galil" here on the forums after I saw American Rifleman TV's coverage of Century Arms new "Golani" rifle.

The search results spit out this thread:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...35&hl=galil

That led me to PM'ing one of the posters in that thread.

He gave up on the 5.45mm idea because:

1. 5.45mm X 39 is actually .221", not .224" as USPSA rules dictate for a minor rifle caliber. It would have to get the nod

from Amidon.

2. A lot of the cheap surplus ammo that he had found actually had a steel core. He didn't think it was a good idea to shoot

steel cored stuff (used a magnet) at a club's steel targets during a match.

3. He couldn't find .221" sized bullets to make his ammo with

So, to the OP of this thread, #2 up above could be a real show stopper, literally!!

[Joe4d]

I guess this falls into the same category as spending $25,000 to save money on gas.

[Chills1994]

I suppose you are referring to buying a hybrid car to save on gas.

My truck might get 14 or 15 mpg on the highway, but, hey, it's paid for, and I like NOT having a 400 something dollar vehicle payment per month. All the more money to spend on reloading supplies, guns.... or savings/stocks.

Just thinking ahead, about this time next year we could have a very different person elected to be the president and by March 2009 there could be a ban on the importation of all Com-Bloc type ammo: your 5.45mm X 39, 7.62 X 39, 7.62 X 54.

So look on the bright side if you stick with something a little more popular, you'd be able to pick up ammo anywhere.

I hope, anyways.

[Topmaul]

I don't think 5.45 has a steel core, take one yes a magnet will stick to it but if you cut it with a leatherman you will find no steel penitrator in it I think the Ruskies have impure lead or use Iron filings as a filler.

I got DQ once for having eastern block 5.56 ammo that stuck to a magnet, when I got home I took one apart no steel like what you would find in green tip military surplus.

That has been my experiance btw getting DQ sucks and when you take a round apart and find not steel it sucks worse.

yes 5.45 is cheap now but it will still have the same issues Wolf, and other Eastern Europen brands have with caused AR manufacturers to make using it cause for voiding warrantees

A good buddy mine will be at Fort Benning in a few weeks with his Vepr in 5.56 because they banned steel cased ammo, I guess in an effort to keep AKs and SKS out seriously I am sure that is not the resion. Because he could not use 5.45 he boutght the Vepr.

Edited November 17, 2007 by Topmaul

[Guy Neill]

Those bullets that attract magnets may have copper washed steel jackets.

Guy

[Topmaul]

but they are not going to punch holes in steel I melted the lead out of the copper jacked and the little globs of lead were magnetic that is why I thought it might have iron as a filler

[Tokarev]

Alexander Arms makes (or used to make, I doubt it was a hot seller!) an upper for the AR platform in this caliber. They called it the .21 Genghis and stated that a standard AR mag would hold something like 20 rounds of 5.45 ammo. Bill also said the standard military load had something like 40% less felt recoil than the 5.56/.223. The folks who were making that AR-47 lower talked about making a lower that’d take the AK-74 mags and they might have sold them at one time, I don’t know. Getting a dedicated lower would be the only way to go, in my opinion since AK-74 magazines are cheap, easy to find and dependable. Plus you’d get the same (or greater with RPK-74 mags) capacity as the .223 crowd with their GI magazines.

5.45 has been available here in the US for awhile but it wasn't super cheap until recently. There's a glut of surplus Russian and Bulgarian ammo on the market right now and it can be had pretty cheap at the moment. I've got a couple AK rifles chambered for this round and I've found them to be pretty accurate and soft. Velocities out of a 16” gun run about 2,800 fps with military ammo. All the surplus ammo currently on the market is corrosive.

With all that said, there's a possible horrible political regime looming on the horizon and I'd be hesitant to buy anything that you'd have to count solely on imports to feed. It's pretty unlikely that Winchester or Federal will ever produce this caliber and, once the cheap ammo dries up, you'll have a pretty nifty conversation piece.

[Tokarev]

I finally got my little 12.5" SBR out to the range and put some rounds over the chronograph. Ammo tested was the WOLF "Military Classic" 70 grain round.

Out of five rounds fired, the slowest velocity was 2368 and the high was 2400. I had two rounds hit the 2400 fps mark. Not bad for a foot long barrel and a heavy little pill!

This rifle is an SLR-105 that was chopped and converted into an AK-105 clone by Ted Marshall of Marshall Arms.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Tokarev

[Carlos]

With all that said, there's a possible horrible political regime looming on the horizon and I'd be hesitant to buy anything that you'd have to count solely on imports to feed. It's pretty unlikely that Winchester or Federal will ever produce this caliber and, once the cheap ammo dries up, you'll have a pretty nifty conversation piece.

good point.

Could a president simply ban imported 5.45x39mm? A: yes. And, there is nothing to stop him or her from doing so.

Without straying into forbidden political territory, I will simply point out that the 1990s import ban on Chinese Norinco .223/7.62x39/5.45 and other ammo/gunparts import bans were accomplished by executive order - i.e. - without the input of congress.

Thus, we citizens have about ZERO recourse to change such actions once the order is given and they are NOT usually announced in advance. We are virtually powerless to stop such import bans. I suppose you could write letters to the WHite House if you so desire (you can also write letters to Santa - good luck with either).

Even regulatory actions like the draconian reloading supply restrictions abandoned earlier this year are easier to fight because they require a public comment period prior to becoming a federal rule. Public comments are not binding, but they cannot be ignored either. There are no large scale domestic manufacturers of 5.45x39mm that I know of.

[richardschennberg]

I think this has to do with the President having exclusive control over foreign policy, with the exception of Declarations of Wars and Ratification of Treaties. The only good thing about executive orders is that they can be superceded by the next President.

Richard