DougCarden Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 OK, for a moment forget that I have been coming to this mecca for years, and gleaning all wisdom and insight I can on helping people shoot better, including mostly my cops that I train. Forget that I have incorporated most of the info into our current training. Remember that most Superiors in my business know more than the rest.... I have a bunch of non shooters that have been coached in the proper techniques, including putting their hands on mine when firing , to feel the proper trigger stroke, etc. I have done the 1-2-3 second count for trigger pull, etc. I need to come up with at least 3 remedial type drills for those who wont shoot.....to make them shoot. The problems are all Grip and trigger stroke related...... They are pretty easy to diagnose....but hard to remediate, and we are limited on our ammo....ordered .40 in April.....we are due to receive in Nov if we are lucky. I am open for suggestions, but I need 3 or 4 simple drills with limited ammo to get the people that need help help......I will obviously incorporate dry firing the correct technique/procedure prior to the drills... Thanks for any and all input. I am trying to look outside the box to see what others have come up with. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 These two seem to cover most of the problems I've seen. Classic ball and dummy drill: Take your typical hi-cap mag for something like a Glock and mix 3-5 live rounds with the rest dummy rounds. They get to practice tap, rack, analyze/bang a bunch and good trigger control and follow through. To make it better, their partner gets to load their mag so they can't stack the rounds in a way they'll remember what's coming. If someone is really having a problem I like to have them put their finger on the trigger and then the instructor puts his/her finger over theirs and does the pressing while all they worry about is sight alignment. Lastly, if you can get a .22 conversion for their duty weapon, or something that feels reasonably similar, it's a great tool to help them work through issues without changing the basic platform. I know they're available for Glocks and 1911's but have no idea about others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 (edited) Bill Drills El Prez 20 Alpha Edited to add 20 Alpha... Edited October 18, 2007 by Catfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Man Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Please, what is the Ronin Drill? FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 How about a revolver /small one with a Lazar sight on it so they can see the red dot move on the wall as they pull the trigger. You could even get one of the small "pointer" and just stick on the side of their gun, if you have DA guns. maybe the magnet tape to stick it on with An empty plastic water bottle held like the gun in two hands = have the trigger finger "float" and pull an imaginary Air trigger. like air guitar . If they squeeze the bottle with the rest of the hand it pops and crackles so as you can hear it. show them it can be don with out making any noise and challenge them to practice with it. And point out that shooting is not that much fun... But hitting what you want as fast as you want- Is Fun- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Man Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 OK! What is the 20 Alpha! Thanks! FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthpawG26 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 OK! What is the 20 Alpha!Thanks! FM Front Man, I'm really trying to read through this thread carefully and make an intelligent post, but your avatar completely prevents me from doing so ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 OK! What is the 20 Alpha!Thanks! FM Front Man, I'm really trying to read through this thread carefully and make an intelligent post, but your avatar completely prevents me from doing so ...... Front Man don't worry about SouthpawG26 just keep the avatar. IT IS VERY NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...83&hl=Ronin 20 Alpha is a target at 25 yards, 5 shot strings for time. Only Alphas count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...83&hl=Ronin20 Alpha is a target at 25 yards, 5 shot strings for time. Only Alphas count. I will have to try this myself. I could help with shot calling and seeing those things on the front of my gun called sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Thanks for the good stuff. I have been using my two SWAT guns with Lasers on them to demonstrate with them when they have good trigger strokes, but will continue to use them along with the dummy round drills. Keep em coming! Thanks, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 After seeing Travis demo it on Shooting USA last night, I'd like to do the drill of hitting a popper in the ball, performing a reload, and then hitting that same popper again before it hits the ground. I think it works on lots of good fundamentals and would probably win me some side bets as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 After seeing Travis demo it on Shooting USA last night, I'd like to do the drill of hitting a popper in the ball, performing a reload, and then hitting that same popper again before it hits the ground. I think it works on lots of good fundamentals and would probably win me some side bets as well. But he IS TT and therefore capable of feats most can only dream of. For me basic, required basic drills would be a hand relaxed, facing targets "Vice Prez" on some partials, a slow fire step back drill 5-35y, and some sort of position entry / movement drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 OK! What is the 20 Alpha!Thanks! FM Front Man, I'm really trying to read through this thread carefully and make an intelligent post, but your avatar completely prevents me from doing so ...... Thanks you, me too +1 cant the moderators do something about that. I think I like it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 "But he IS TT and therefore capable of feats most can only dream of." With all due respect, that is unhappy horseshit. Travis is an amazing shooter and the nicest guy on the planet, but he is not a superhero, at least no more than you are. Do you think he was born with that skill, or did he perhaps chase it down, kill it, and then drag it back to the truck with his bare hands while others sat around the campfire on their 4-wheelers? My sincere apologies to the offended, SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 It's not a lot of fun.. but it takes no ammo and is great for checking trigger control. Try the old balance a quarter on the slide while dry firing trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Means Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 It's not a lot of fun.. but it takes no ammo and is great for checking trigger control.Try the old balance a quarter on the slide while dry firing trick. It's a quarter on the slide... I think I was told a penny on the front sight. BTW, does anyone have this Tomasie clip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 What ia a Bill Drill? I hear this time and time again and it doesn't come up with the search. Also, some goos reloading drills. Oh and that avatar, wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 (edited) Bill Drill Draw and fire 6 shots on a target. Only A's count and it is a great measure and training aid. The "real" one is at 7 yards but its good from 0-50 yards, including strong/weak hand grip and really measures and develops your relaxation level, speed shooting and sight picture awareness as well as a whole lot more. PS If you can do the standard 7 yard under 2 sec you are doing well and probably in Master class. Cold. When you reach this level you start finding out how much .10 is for advancement. PSS My 3 drills are Bill Drill, Draw shoot 2 reload and shoot 2, a group shooting drill with a paper plate at say 10+ yards Edited October 20, 2007 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 1 - Group Shooting: If you can't hit the target, it doesn't matter what drill you do. 2 - Timing Drills: If you can't see the sights during recoil, it doesn't matter how fast you can pull the trigger. 3 - Target Transitions: If you can't move your eyes, then the gun, then you better hope there's only one target out there. After that, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 1 - Group Shooting: If you can't hit the target, it doesn't matter what drill you do.2 - Timing Drills: If you can't see the sights during recoil, it doesn't matter how fast you can pull the trigger. 3 - Target Transitions: If you can't move your eyes, then the gun, then you better hope there's only one target out there. After that, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. Rich Really like those 3, I would add group shooting at 25 yards or more will force you to watch the sight lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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