boo radley Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I don't know what's going on. About two months ago, towards the end of loading about 1k of .40's, my 650 got tough to operate, and I traced it to the resizing/depriming die (station 1). The carbide ring was a bit scratched up, and indeed -- my brass was coming out of this die striped with thin scratches along the length. I'm using Lee dies. Sent the die off, which Lee replaced (thx!), and in the meantime loaded up .45acp, again with Lee dies, and again with the same problem. I can take pictures, but there is a series of scratches in the carbide ring which really make it tough to operated the press. When I lower the handle, it sometimes takes major "ooomph" to yank the case out of the die. In the meantime, I had ordered a single Dillon sizing die in .40, and now that, too, is starting to get scratched up. I can't imagine what is going on....I tumble my brass and think it's more or less clean? The other common denominator is that I've gone to using a can of silicon spray exclusively for a case lube, because it's cheap and seems to work....Could this be causing an issue? Somehow grit is getting suspended in the silicon from the caseloader? But then why wouldn't this happen with waxy One-Shot, too? So odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) have you tried going back to one shot to see if it makes it any easier? but before you do, is the dies scratched or is it possible its a build up of brass/dirt/etc deposits? Also is the machine lubed in its usual location? Edited October 11, 2007 by yoshidaex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I would quit using the silicon or any othe form of case lube for the reloader. I tumble my brass till it is shiny, the load it, doesnt matter what caliber or what machine(550,1050) case lube only makes it slightly easier and then you have to tumble again to remove the case lube. I use both Lee and Dillon dies(depends on caliber) and have never had this situation. My loader stay in the garage and are subject to temp extremes and shifts so they are not in the best enviroments. I do tumble my brass though for extended periods of time, typically I will start tumbling about 9pm and let it tumble over night in corncob only. It always comes out looking very clean and shiny and that is the only lube my brass ever sees. I do pour a little polishing compound in with every batch. I think you can remidy this with small changes in your setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Could it be that you run your sizing die so low that, at the top of the downstroke, the shell holder comes in contact with the carbide ring of the die, causing damage to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I am not sure what is going on in your case but this is the process that I have used on my 650 for 3 years or so for .40: Tumble cases in walnut for ~ 1 hour Tumble cases in corn cob for ~ 1 hour Lay them out on a towel and give them a hit with One-shot Load using Dillon sizing/decap die, Lee U die, Dillon powder die, Redding seater, Lee FCD Gauge check match ammo. Shoot the stuff. For .45 it is the same except for: Load using Dillon sizing/decap die, Dillon powder die, Dillon seater, Lee FCD. I did the same for my 550 for 5 years before. In fact, the .45 dies are at least 8 years old! After feeling the differnce in effort running the press, I will always use case lube. Did you get sand or rocks in the tumbling media? It is a good idea to run your cases through a media separator before tumbling if they were pick-ups! YMMV Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Good info here. I do run my cases through a separator but I haven't changed my media in a LONG time. Luca -- good point about the sizing dies, but then I'd expect the damage only on the bottom of the sizing die -- not inside it. I still think the issue is related to grit and/or silicone spray. Press is in my home office, and not subject to the elements beyond a sometimes cold, howling wind from my wife <grin>. I'll take some pictures later. This is getting expensive, 'cause once the dies gets scratched like this, they don't appear to heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Could it be that the cases are not going in exactly straight and so the case mouth is causing the scratches. If the indexing of the shell plate is off by even a tiny bit it could cause the type of damage that you describe.... I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Did you get sand or rocks in the tumbling media? It is a good idea to run your cases through a media separator before tumbling if they were pick-ups!YMMV Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Did you get sand or rocks in the tumbling media? It is a good idea to run your cases through a media separator before tumbling if they were pick-ups!YMMV Later, Chuck You mean that would be easier than picking the rcoks out with a dental pick after they wedge themselves in nice and tight after tumbling? Duh Lightbulb! Thank you! Sorry had a premature hit of the reply button earlier...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I'll bet you run a lot of nickel-plated brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I'll bet you run a lot of nickel-plated brass. Eric, I've run nickel-plated only .40" brass for the last 2 years in a row in my 650, equipped with Lee sizing, bullet seating and FC D dies, without having any problem at all. In fact, I actually like nickel plated brass a lot more than pure brass: they clean easier, faster and are a lot easier through the press, like lubed brass. What problems could NP brass cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Nickle plated brass has never caused me a problem other than splitting way faster. The only time I've ever scratched a die was with dirty brass. Tumbling in old media that probably contains dirt, then spraying with silicon spray (or One-Shot) is a good way to scratch a die. You may want to use a sifter/separator on your brass before tumbling it if you tend to pick up a lot of dirt with the brass. Mix some rubbing alcohol in your media and it will speed up the cleaning process, especially if you're tumbling to get rid of case lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) Well...a couple issues were going on. I pulled the tool-head last night, to look up into the die, and noticed the depriming pin was way off center, and bent. Not only was I depriming, I was also enlarging the flash hole, or poking another one. No wonder the press was, uh, "sticky". Fortunately, I had another pin. Second, while the die was scratched, I wrapped some 600grit paper around a ball point pen, and twirled for a while. Life is now good. I think -- scratches are from dirty media and brass. I've been picking up a lot of really dirty brass lately, from an outdoor range and practice, and possibly the silicon spray helps suspend the grit, too... And the difficult press operation was from the bent resizing pin. It's time to do a major clean, anyway. Thx Edited October 12, 2007 by boo radley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_J Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Carbide dies should not be scratching the cases. I would be dirt is sticking to the die and this is what is scratching the cases. Brass needs to be VERY clean. Not polished but clean. Throwing dirty range pick-ups into the tumbler with dirty media will not prevent dirt from getting into the dies. I would recommend a good washing machine wash in a mesh bag. Then the cases should be clean enough for tumbling. Make sure the media seperator and buckets are kept covered unless using, fallout from other operations (case trimming etc) can contaminate media. No lube is necessary for pistol cases in carbide dies, that could be dragging dirt into the die. Looking at used carbide sizing rings, I often see smears of brass. This will cause problems. Remove with a good copper solvent and enjoy like-new performance. This also works with non-carbide dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I'll bet you run a lot of nickel-plated brass. What problems could NP brass cause? If you get brass where the plating is flaking, it will scratch the dies badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 The sizing ring DOES need to be cleaned periodically. Some seem to believe since it's carbide it doesn't need cleaning and will last forever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_J Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 The sizing ring DOES need to be cleaned periodically. Some seem to believe since it's carbide it doesn't need cleaning and will last forever.... Yep. And if you look at the carbide under 10x magnification, you will see bits of brass smear on it. You see carbide is actually a ceramic-metal matrix and the cobalt/nickel metal matrix will cold alloy with brass, causing smearing. The same thing happens in steel dies but to a greater extent. Cleaning the dies with good copper solvent will remove the brass "smear" and restore like new performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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