Authoritative list of parts for loading .50AE on the 650?

[mobocracy]

I finally scored a real deal on a Desert Eagle (yes, I know, its a stroke artist gun..) and need to be able to load .50AE.

Both my local dealer (John Walton @ Gunstop in Minnesota) and others claim its possible to load 50AE and get casefeeding despite no official conversion kits. Does anyone have a definitive list of known parts to make this happen, or I will I be producing it?

[Intel6]

Never loaded the caliber on the 650 but I can't see how you could make it work with the case feeder? Since it is a rebated head case the cases would nestle into each other in the tube and jam the feeder since it pulls the cases out of the feed colum to the side and the rebated rim of the case above the case being fed woudl keep it from feeding. You could load on the 650 with a .44 Mag shell plate and proper powder funnel but I don't think you will have much luck with the case feeder.

I am no stranger to this, I load and shoot .41 Action Express ammo out of two different guns and played around with it in my 650. I still load it on my 550.

Neal in AZ

[dillon]

You CAN load 50AE on the 650, if you are willing to live with some limitations on the operation of the machine. The rebated case head design precludes use of the case insertion system. You must remove the case feed setup, as well as the case feed plunger and cam assembly from the machine, and insert cases into the shellplate by hand. If you are willing to do this, then you can load 50AE on the XL650. Use the C shellplate, #4 locator buttons, 50AE powder funnel and the oversize powder die. The shellplate still automatically advances, but you can negate this if you wish by removing the pawl from the ring indexer, essentially giving you a 5 station 550.

[mobocracy]

Interesting.

My dealer and I looked at the C shellplate and it didn't fit the 50AE case well (I have this shellplate already, I should check again). What did fit was the N shellplate from a 44-40 conversion kit. He also claims to have at least one other customer who does this on a 650, including usable casefeeding, but said he couldn't remember the specific amalgam of parts. There's also this post from the Desert Eagle public forum, DE Forum Loading 50 AE on the 650 where the poster claims to be using a modified C shellplate but has casefeed working.

I only have two .50AE cases at this point, but with my press currently setup for .44 Mag those two cases fed from the casefeed bowl and dropped down to my hand from the casefeed mechanism (less the bushing) without any problems. The rim and the mouth are very close in size, but even with some force I can't get an unfired new Starline rim into the mouth of a fired and unsized IMI case, so it doesn't seem like the rebated rim/case mouth stacking would be a big problem.

I don't doubt that casefeed might not be as smooth as a "normal" caliber, but it sounds like it might be workable enough to be worth pursuing.

[dillon]

Try the case stacking with fired cases. makes just enough difference to cause problems.

[mobocracy]

Try the case stacking with fired cases. makes just enough difference to cause problems.

I did try the rim of a new case against the mouth of a fired case and it didn't seem like an issue. I've only had the gun 3 days and haven't fired it to collect more fired cases.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to void your knowledge, I'm just hoping I can get it working reliably enough to avoid stripping off the casefeed, not to mention the wonderful speed benefits of casefeeding.

[mobocracy]

An update:

I went by my dealer yesterday and picked up some parts for doing .50AE on the 650, including case feeding.

I picked up the N shellholder and N station 1 locater, some #4 locater buttons, the XL powder die and 50 AE powder funnel. I skipped the magnum rifle conversion kit, which would have enabled the use of the XL casefeed body bushing. We figured it was superfluous. My dealer was out of the individual yellow arm bushings and adapters, so I'm using mine from my .44 mag kit temporarily.

This morning, I installed the shellplate and the station 1 locater and threw about 20 new Starline cases into the casefeed bowl and turned it on. Success! Cases feed from the motorized casefeed and went around the press without any problems. I loaded a half-dozen spent primers into the primer magazine and had no problem priming cases (I was a little worried about the cases centering over the primer punch).

However, when I went to setup the dies I found that it looks like the magnum rifle casefeed adapter and the XL body bushing is going to be mandatory. With dies on the press, I was crushing cases against the casefeed body since they weren't staying centered over the opening they dropped down from.. When you're shooting a caliber at 50 cents a shot, what's another $85 in reloading equipment?

But the good news is that the casefeed mechanism doesn't screw up with the rebated rims, so its looking like I will more than likely be able to load 50AE with casefeeding.

Another update: A just-barely-cleared obstacle is the powder die/powder funnel setup. The 50AE powder funnel is very short and requires the powder die screwed in within a hair of the shellplate in order to get case mouth belling. A taller (by .500") powder funnel would be nice for flexibility, but I suppose you could use the otherwise-unused case mouth belling die from the RCBS set in station 3.

Edited October 15, 2007 by mobocracy

[slavex]

I grabbed a couple hundred .50 AR fired cases and tried them in a tube to see if I'd have problems, and I couldn't get them to hang up. the rims didn't go into the mouths at all.

[benos]

You CAN load 50AE on the 650, if you are willing to live with some limitations on the operation of the machine. The rebated case head design precludes use of the case insertion system. You must remove the case feed setup, as well as the case feed plunger and cam assembly from the machine, and insert cases into the shellplate by hand. If you are willing to do this, then you can load 50AE on the XL650. Use the C shellplate, #4 locator buttons, 50AE powder funnel and the oversize powder die. The shellplate still automatically advances, but you can negate this if you wish by removing the pawl from the ring indexer, essentially giving you a 5 station 550.

Gary,

I have this in my notes for the 50 AE/650:

Needed to convert to 50 AE: (Note: 50 AE Cannot be used/loaded with Casefeeder)

12903 650 Shellplate B - 50 AE/500 S&W

14047 3, Locator Buttons: #4 (44 Mag/45 Colt/500 S&W)

21253 Powder Die - Extra Large

14465 Powder Funnel 50 AE / 500 S&W

?

be

[mobocracy]

The addition of the XL casefeed body assembly and the XL casefeed body bushing has solved my last problem.

My 650 is now fully functional for loading .50AE, including automatic casefeed from the electric casefeeder. I loaded about 20 rounds last night as a proof of concept.

The only thing that still rankles is the very-nearly-too-short powder funnel. I'm kind of tempted to see if I can find a machinist to make a copy of it but with the same body length as the .44 Mag funnel. It doesn't look like a super complicated bit of machining, but I'm not a machinist.

With something like that, I would think Dillon could supply a packaged conversion or at least support it with a parts list.

[benos]

The addition of the XL casefeed body assembly and the XL casefeed body bushing has solved my last problem.

My 650 is now fully functional for loading .50AE, including automatic casefeed from the electric casefeeder. I loaded about 20 rounds last night as a proof of concept.

The only thing that still rankles is the very-nearly-too-short powder funnel. I'm kind of tempted to see if I can find a machinist to make a copy of it but with the same body length as the .44 Mag funnel. It doesn't look like a super complicated bit of machining, but I'm not a machinist.

You're still using the N Shellplate?

Since I'm not familiar with the 50AE, since it seems to work with the Casefeeder/tube - the casemouth is not wide enough so that the rim can get down inside it? If it works with the Casefeeder that seems like that would have to be the case.

Thanks,

be

[mobocracy]

The addition of the XL casefeed body assembly and the XL casefeed body bushing has solved my last problem.

My 650 is now fully functional for loading .50AE, including automatic casefeed from the electric casefeeder. I loaded about 20 rounds last night as a proof of concept.

The only thing that still rankles is the very-nearly-too-short powder funnel. I'm kind of tempted to see if I can find a machinist to make a copy of it but with the same body length as the .44 Mag funnel. It doesn't look like a super complicated bit of machining, but I'm not a machinist.

You're still using the N Shellplate?

Since I'm not familiar with the 50AE, since it seems to work with the Casefeeder/tube - the casemouth is not wide enough so that the rim can get down inside it? If it works with the Casefeeder that seems like that would have to be the case.

Thanks,

be

Orginally both Dillon (on the phone) and the dillon poster in this forum said that "stacking" -- the rebated rim of the .50AE case entering the case mouth of the case below -- was why they didn't support it and casefeeding would not work.

Experience has shown that this doesn't happen. New cases will not fit inside the case mouth of even fired cases, either a range pickup I have, or factory cases fired in my gun. And they do not prevent automatic case feeding. It's actually much better than loading .32 Auto which gets a flipped case from the casefeed about 1 in 25.

Here's my more-or-less complete parts list. Sorry I don't have the Dillon part numbers.

1) N Shellplate (mine came from the .44-40 conversion)

2) N Station 1 locater (also from .44-40 conversion)

3) #4 locater buttons

4) Yellow Casefeed adapter & arm bushing (from .44 Mag conversion)

5) XL Powder Die (used in .500 S&W Mag conversion)

6) .50AE powder funnel (also used in .500 Mag conversion, also and originally the part for a Dillon 550 .50AE conversion)

7) Magnum/XL Casefeed Body Assembly

8) XL Casefeed Body Bushing (requires #7; will not fit standard Casefeed Body Assembly)

9) The electric casefeed setup is the same as .44 Magnum (plate plus washer stack).

10) Stock casefeed tube

I just loaded another 33 rounds and it worked flawlessly. The only thing I wish was different was a .44-mag length .50AE powder funnel, and a machinist in a local shooting group says he will look at what's involved in making one. (I assume that if I'm not reselling it, Dillon will see it as "end-user innovation" and not "patent infringement").

[benos]

I talked to Gary about the 50 AE/Casefeeder a bit this morning... he said when they tested the 50 AE with the Casefeeder, with various brass/number of firings, it didn't work consistently enough for them to officially support it.

On the N vs. B Shellplate, he said either would work. However, if you had to buy a Shellplate, then the B would be recommended, because it has a reliefs ground in the top at each station that, over time after more firings, will give the case a little more "room."

mobocracy,

After you've run 500 - 1,000 50 AE rounds through the Casefeeder, I would really appreciate an update on whether or not you'd consider it 100% reliable. (Or whatever percentage you'd give it.) This would really help me out down the road on phone calls with customers.

Thank you,

Brian

[mobocracy]

I talked to Gary about the 50 AE/Casefeeder a bit this morning... he said when they tested the 50 AE with the Casefeeder, with various brass/number of firings, it didn't work consistently enough for them to officially support it.

I don't yet know how many firings the cases are good for, but perhaps that it something to pay attention to as cases age. Thusfar, none of the case combos I have will stack on me (IMI yellow brass, Speer factory nickel, and Starline yellow, the latter both virgin and fired in my gun). I wonder if its an issue with case rims wearing just enough to shrink them down?

On the N vs. B Shellplate, he said either would work. However, if you had to buy a Shellplate, then the B would be recommended, because it has a reliefs ground in the top at each station that, over time after more firings, will give the case a little more "room."

I went with the N because it fit well and my dealer had used it a couple if years ago for another "wildcat" 650 adaption to 50AE. I'll keep that in mind if I talk to any other guys looking to do the same thing.

mobocracy,

After you've run 500 - 1,000 50 AE rounds through the Casefeeder, I would really appreciate an update on whether or not you'd consider it 100% reliable. (Or whatever percentage you'd give it.) This would really help me out down the road on phone calls with customers.

Thank you,

Brian

Sure. I'm also having a custom powder funnel made that will match the .44's funnel in length. A machinist will make me one for $25, and I think this might make powder charging a tad smoother and case belling adjustment a little more flexible. It works now with the 550 50AE funnel, but there's not a ton of wiggle room.

I've loaded 120 so far without any problems on the press, and the ammo seems pretty decent, too, leaving a 1-1.5" ragged hole at 15 yards. Now if I could just track down jacketed bullets for less than $0.35 each...

[mobocracy]

I talked to Gary about the 50 AE/Casefeeder a bit this morning... he said when they tested the 50 AE with the Casefeeder, with various brass/number of firings, it didn't work consistently enough for them to officially support it.

On the N vs. B Shellplate, he said either would work. However, if you had to buy a Shellplate, then the B would be recommended, because it has a reliefs ground in the top at each station that, over time after more firings, will give the case a little more "room."

mobocracy,

After you've run 500 - 1,000 50 AE rounds through the Casefeeder, I would really appreciate an update on whether or not you'd consider it 100% reliable. (Or whatever percentage you'd give it.) This would really help me out down the road on phone calls with customers.

Thank you,

Brian

Brian-

I recently ran another 200 rounds of .50AE through my 650 with casfeeder. I have changed calibers 3 times in between my last .50AE session, so I had to re-assemble the .50AE setup as any other caliber conversion. It ran perfectly, with no casefeed problems.

The cases used were once/twice fired Starline yellow brass, so they were probably as blown out as one could reasonably expect and they still presented no problem stacking on the rebated rims.

I had two cases not get put all the way into station 1 and kind of ding against the size die, but I've had this happen with supported calibers and I think its more an issue of the RCBS dies I'm using not having very radiused mouths.

I did have a machinist make a custom powder funnel -- same OAL as the .44 Mag powder funnel, but the other dimensions are consistent with the .50AE powder funnel from the 550 .50AE/650 .500S&W conversion kit. This also worked well and allowed me to screw the powder die to approximately the same position used with the .44 Mag; with the Dillon .50AE funnel, the powder die had to be screwed down so far it nearly touched the shellplate and barely flared the case mouth. I showed mine to my Dillon dealer, John Walton @ the Gunstop in Minnetonka, MN, and the next time I was in he told me Dillon changed this part for the .500 S&W conversion as the .50AE funnel was causing problems for .500 S&W reloaders.

This report may be a tad premature (200 rounds vs. 1000), but it'll take me a while to shoot 1000 rounds of .50AE and I figured that it was pretty valid anyway since I used a batch of fired .50AE cases and the conversion parts were put back on a second time. I see no reason why this wouldn't be a normally supported conversion, especially if the powder die for the .500S&W has been redesigned.

[benos]

Thanks a lot - I appreciate the feedback.

be

[DEP44]

Almost 3 years ago now and I am curious about the experience so far.

Time to call it a proven concept?

Thanks.