Slide stop question i think

[Fireant]

OK my glocks, smith&wessons even my CZ's all let the slide go forward from slide lock on a fresh mag. Can I make my STI Eagle do the same? Think limited 10 with short mags and a small magwell. I'm not worried about over insertion. I just want the slide to go forward when I seat a new mag without having to use the slide lock.

[mjbine]

OK my glocks, smith&wessons even my CZ's all let the slide go forward from slide lock on a fresh mag. Can I make my STI Eagle do the same? Think limited 10 with short mags and a small magwell. I'm not worried about over insertion. I just want the slide to go forward when I seat a new mag without having to use the slide lock.

Sorry that I cannot help you but I try never to get into a position where I am empty. I shoot primarily L10 and some production and plan my reloads make sure there is always one in the chamber.

[HSMITH]

Cut a VERY slight angle on the slide stop where the plunger tip hits it. If you go too far the slide will drop when you drop the empty mag out.

On high cap guns I defeat the slide lock, on low cap guns having a trick slide stop isn't a bad idea.....

[benny hill]

If it happens on a 1911/2011 it needs to be fixed. The slide stop should stay to the rear untill depressed.

[Fireant]

Well, it's acctually more like limited 10 minor(IDPA ESP)

[GentlemanJim]

I cut a detent in the slide stop so it wont engage..even if run dry.

setting it to trip with just the shock of mag insertion..will come back and ruin your day for sure.

JMHO...Jim

[G-ManBart]

I don't know about CZs, but Glocks definitely should not release from slide lock without you intentionally hitting the slide stop lever. Most of the Smiths I've dealt with were the same. 1911/2011s are no different. If that's happening it will eventually do so when you don't want it to!

[Flexmoney]

...Glocks definitely should not release from slide lock without you intentionally hitting the slide stop lever. .

Glocks most certainly do.

The mechnaics of it are pretty simple, really.

A. The slide stop/release is lightly sprung. Unless acted upon by another force, it will default to the non-engaged position.

B. When a mag becomes empty, the follower acts up the slide stop/release. Since the mag spring is relatively stronger, it overcomes the weaker slide stop/release's spring...pushing it out of it's default position.

C. Once pushed up, the slide stop/release catches the notch in the slide. Now, even if the mag is removed and the follower is no longer acting on the slide stop/release, the slide will remain locked back...as the friction supplied by the recoil spring wanting to close the slide will keep the the slide stop/release engaged in the notch.

D. From here, there are two ways to dis-engage the slide stop/release:

1. Physically push down on the slide stop/release, clearing it from the notch.

2. Retract the slide, taking pressure off the notch, which allows the slide stop/release to spring to it's default location...which is dis-engaged.

When we consider #2 above, the act of inserting a mag into the gun is often enough to cause the slide to retract, allowing the slide lock/release to default to the dis-engaged position. Thus, allowing the slide to close.

[Fireant]

What Flex said. I want that to happen on my Eagle.

[HSMITH]

I told you how....

[G-ManBart]

...Glocks definitely should not release from slide lock without you intentionally hitting the slide stop lever. .

Glocks most certainly do.

The mechnaics of it are pretty simple, really.

A. The slide stop/release is lightly sprung. Unless acted upon by another force, it will default to the non-engaged position.

B. When a mag becomes empty, the follower acts up the slide stop/release. Since the mag spring is relatively stronger, it overcomes the weaker slide stop/release's spring...pushing it out of it's default position.

C. Once pushed up, the slide stop/release catches the notch in the slide. Now, even if the mag is removed and the follower is no longer acting on the slide stop/release, the slide will remain locked back...as the friction supplied by the recoil spring wanting to close the slide will keep the the slide stop/release engaged in the notch.

D. From here, there are two ways to dis-engage the slide stop/release:

1. Physically push down on the slide stop/release, clearing it from the notch.

2. Retract the slide, taking pressure off the notch, which allows the slide stop/release to spring to it's default location...which is dis-engaged.

When we consider #2 above, the act of inserting a mag into the gun is often enough to cause the slide to retract, allowing the slide lock/release to default to the dis-engaged position. Thus, allowing the slide to close.

Flex,

Yes it's possible for that to happen and I have one gun that I can make do it nearly on demand, but it's not "supposed" to happen. Glock did not design the gun such that the act of inserting a magazine into the gun would normally or intentionally cause the slide to close. If my memory is correct, Glock actually advocates pulling the slide to the rear as the preferred method of releasing it, but it's been a while and I could be confusing them with another company.

I'm not claiming to be a world expert on Glocks, but am lucky enough to work with those who are....I've only seen a couple thousand or so duty Glocks in use to their tens of thousands, but I know that any time we see one doing it we have to get it fixed because the spring on the slide stop lever is weak.

While we're primarily talking about competition guns here, nobody is going to sell an auto designed such that the slide is released as soon as a mag is inserted...I can only hear the lawsuit now "I was looking at the gun, put the magazine in it and the slide closed and I guess my finger must have been on the trigger...."

Not only that, but if the slide closes by itself are we really sure the mag was fully seated and it stripped a round?

If hitting the slide stop lever during a reload is slowing a shooter down enough to hurt them in competition, they need to work on their reload technique, not worry about modifying the gun

[HI5-O]

I can get my Glock slide or any Glock slide to go forward after inserting a loaded mag. It's all in the way you tap in the mag. Just like an AR15/M16 when you hit the buttstock. I show it to the new recruits as the wrong way to do a reload.

It has to do with inertia

Not an equipment issue in my opinion.

Barry

[Fireant]

It is all about inertia. Weaker recoil spring comnbined with a polished slide stop and slap a mag home to give the force. We are talking about a game where tenths of a second can make a difference with points being the same. If I can get back on target and back to the shooting faster why not?

[Flexmoney]

I'm not claiming to be a world expert on Glocks, but am lucky enough to work with those who are....I've only seen a couple thousand or so duty Glocks in use to their tens of thousands, but I know that any time we see one doing it we have to get it fixed because the spring on the slide stop lever is weak.

I'm having trouble seeing how the spring on the slide stop/release being weak could cause the slide to drop. What am I missing? That spring is there to move the slide stop/release to the dis-engaged position as the slide is retracted, correct?

Not only that, but if the slide closes by itself are we really sure the mag was fully seated and it stripped a round?

That, is a very valid point.

Which is probably one reason why pulling the slide to the rear is often a sound tactic.

[G-ManBart]

I'm not claiming to be a world expert on Glocks, but am lucky enough to work with those who are....I've only seen a couple thousand or so duty Glocks in use to their tens of thousands, but I know that any time we see one doing it we have to get it fixed because the spring on the slide stop lever is weak.

I'm having trouble seeing how the spring on the slide stop/release being weak could cause the slide to drop. What am I missing? That spring is there to move the slide stop/release to the dis-engaged position as the slide is retracted, correct?

Not only that, but if the slide closes by itself are we really sure the mag was fully seated and it stripped a round?

That, is a very valid point.

Which is probably one reason why pulling the slide to the rear is often a sound tactic.

Flex,

They could have been giving me a BS reason (or I misunderstood it), but going off memory I think they referred to it as bouncing the slide stop. Maybe if the spring is weaker, when you put the mag in firmly it compresses the spring which would let it snap back to the retract position hard enough to release the slide. It might actually be more of bouncing the spring than the lever itself.

I've got to work some night shifts this week and next (with almost all down time) so I might try to send them an e-mail to get a better understanding of what they were talking about.

[TONY BARONE]

Listen to Benny he knows what he is talking about. Reliability is what counts.

[Chuck Anderson]

It's also not recommended because the harder you smack the gun in, the lower the bullets end up in the mag. If you're just doing a normal reload and it happens, OK, I guess. But what I see a lot of is people slamming it hard trying to get the jump. I've had it happen a couple times where the round didn't feed at all. New mag in, slide goes forward, gun goes click. We also won't teach it because it's one more thing to think about. Did the slide go forward? If you have to think about whether to rack or not it will slow you down in the long run.

[GentlemanJim]

You could just refrain from shooting the gun dry...thats what most folks do.

Jim

[Crusher]

Let's see:

In a game where one is compelled to shoot to slide lock the options are:

1: insert mag, obtain shooting grip, release slide and fire as the gun returns to battery.

OR

2: Inset mag, slide goes forward into battery, obtain shooting grip fire the round.

For me if any of my 1911/2011s run the slide down in that game on a slide lock reload its time to "fix" the gun, I want to be the one who releases the slide lock, my magazines are not smart enough to decide.

Beware you may think your magazines are "smart" but they really are NOT.

[Flexmoney]

I'm not claiming to be a world expert on Glocks, but am lucky enough to work with those who are....I've only seen a couple thousand or so duty Glocks in use to their tens of thousands, but I know that any time we see one doing it we have to get it fixed because the spring on the slide stop lever is weak.

I'm having trouble seeing how the spring on the slide stop/release being weak could cause the slide to drop. What am I missing? That spring is there to move the slide stop/release to the dis-engaged position as the slide is retracted, correct?

Not only that, but if the slide closes by itself are we really sure the mag was fully seated and it stripped a round?

That, is a very valid point.

Which is probably one reason why pulling the slide to the rear is often a sound tactic.

Flex,

They could have been giving me a BS reason (or I misunderstood it), but going off memory I think they referred to it as bouncing the slide stop. Maybe if the spring is weaker, when you put the mag in firmly it compresses the spring which would let it snap back to the retract position hard enough to release the slide. It might actually be more of bouncing the spring than the lever itself.

I've got to work some night shifts this week and next (with almost all down time) so I might try to send them an e-mail to get a better understanding of what they were talking about.

Somethng is wrong there with that line of thinking, I believe.

Inserting the mag shouldn't, in any way, have any impact on the slide stop/release spring.

The spring to replace as a "fix" would be the recoil spring. And, that is likely mental masterbation.

[Flexmoney]

It's also not recommended because the harder you smack the gun in, the lower the bullets end up in the mag. If you're just doing a normal reload and it happens, OK, I guess. But what I see a lot of is people slamming it hard trying to get the jump. I've had it happen a couple times where the round didn't feed at all. New mag in, slide goes forward, gun goes click.

Same here. I've had it not strip a round a time or two. Once at a major match...going strong hand only...with a weighted bucket in the weak hand.

[Flexmoney]

You could just refrain from shooting the gun dry...thats what most folks do.

Jim

In IDPA running the gun dry seems to happen regularly.

[Flexmoney]

Fireant,

I don't know that I have heard of anybody really trying to do this with an STI. Anybody else?

What would be a more immediate concern for me would be making sure that the slide actually locks back on an empty mag.

[Nemo]

I think they referred to it as bouncing the slide stop.

My son used to have the slide stop bounce down to a science when he was shooting Glocks. He knew how forcefully to insert the mag to make the slidestop let the slide go. I made him abandon the practice and to learn to TRB (actually insert, rack, bang) every time, thus making the TRB an immediate reflex that serves for more than just slide lock reload.

Fireant: Practice a bunch of dry TRB, but instead of the TAP do a MAG INSERTION and forget trying to make your STI to drop the slide on the load. Sounds like bad juju.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Nemo

[Fireant]

I got it figured out without cutting anything. Thanks for the help and sugestions. If it works 98 times out of 100 for this game I'm happy with it. YMMV