9mm loads for IDPA

[sifu128]

Hey guys, I have a question about reload rounds. Being that I am just starting to reload and shoot IDPA I am trying to find the best round to meet the minimum requirement for SSP (125,000). I would also like to try to minimize recoil as well if all possible. For my frist match I was just shooting Winchester White Box 115g 9mm.

From my understanding you can go with a heavier grain bullet (124g over 115g) and just a bit less powder to achieve that? Is there any truth to this?

Now I have been to http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp to get some reloading data. I havent gotten a reloading book yet as I am waiting on my press, so if anyone can point me to a really good resource I will really be happy .

Using that link I was able to get the following data:

Bullet Weight (Gr.) | Order BW | Powder | Bullet Diam. | C.O.L. | Grs. | Vel. (ft/s) | Pressure | Grs. | Vel. (ft/s) | Pressure

124 GR. LEAD RN | 124 | WSF | .355" | 1.169" | 4.0 | 945 | 22,200 PSI | 4.7 | 1055 | 27,300 PSI

22,200 PSI = Starting load

27,300 PSI = Maximum load (I know already not to ever go over this)

Doing the math for starting load - 124 * 945 = 117180 -> (Not enough)

Doing the math for maximum load - 124 * 1055 = 130820 -> (A bit over)

1. Based on the numbers does it really matter? Shooting lead looks like I am almost using a max load.

2. Is it really worth it to back off a few grains perhaps down to something like 4.4 - 4.5?

All comments are really welcome

[pstew]

A couple of things.

You should back down as suggested, because each gun will have a different pressure curve.

Don't load a whole bunch of each of the test loads or you will have a bunch of bullets you don't really want

for a 4.0 to 4.7 I think I'd do a 4.1, 4.3, 4.5 & 4.7 load, mabey 20 of each.

Higher velocities and lead bullets can cause leading in the barrel, so you need to test shoot a couple of hundred after you settle on a load to see if you can make it through a match.

[revchuck]

A big thing you have to remember is that all guns are different in terms of what velocities they'll deliver. Two guns of the same exact model coming off the assembly line one after the other will shoot the same ammo to slightly different velocites. Therefore, a piece of reloading equipment you'll have to get very soon is a chronograph (unless you've got a friend who'll let you use his/hers). The pressure limits in reloading manuals are guidelines you'll want to stay within.

Shooting lead bullets in a 9x19 isn't a problem. Most bullets you'll get from a major supplier are about the right hardness for 9x19, so there shouldn't be any problem with leading. They'll smoke more than the factory ammo you've been using; this is due the bullet lube being burned during ignition.

If you get leading in the chamber end of the barrel, the load needs to be increased; if at the muzzle end, you need to throttle back. If it leads the length of the barrel, either you've got bad bullets or a barrel that just hates lead bullets - it happens.

One thing to be very aware of is cartridge overall length (OAL). Especially in 9x19, it's very important that bullets not be seated too deeply. You want to load them as long as possible, using your magazine and the chamber in your gun as the measure. Max OAL for 9x19 is 1.169"; factory hardball tends to be around 1.15", and factory hollowpoints are usually around 1.12". If you choose the 125 grain round nose lead bullet that just about everyone offers, you can use a round of the Winchester White Box ammo to set up your seating and crimp dies and be awfully close.

How to check that the ammo's not too long: Pull the barrel out of your pistol, and drop a round of that factory ammo into the chamber. Note where the rim ends up. Then do the same with your round. If the rim ends up in the same place, leave your round in the chamber and point the muzzle straight up. If the round falls out, it's not too long.

WSF (the one in your data) would be a good powder to start with.

Best of luck!

[sifu128]

A big thing you have to remember is that all guns are different in terms of what velocities they'll deliver. Two guns of the same exact model coming off the assembly line one after the other will shoot the same ammo to slightly different velocites. Therefore, a piece of reloading equipment you'll have to get very soon is a chronograph (unless you've got a friend who'll let you use his/hers). The pressure limits in reloading manuals are guidelines you'll want to stay within.

Shooting lead bullets in a 9x19 isn't a problem. Most bullets you'll get from a major supplier are about the right hardness for 9x19, so there shouldn't be any problem with leading. They'll smoke more than the factory ammo you've been using; this is due the bullet lube being burned during ignition.

If you get leading in the chamber end of the barrel, the load needs to be increased; if at the muzzle end, you need to throttle back. If it leads the length of the barrel, either you've got bad bullets or a barrel that just hates lead bullets - it happens.

One thing to be very aware of is cartridge overall length (OAL). Especially in 9x19, it's very important that bullets not be seated too deeply. You want to load them as long as possible, using your magazine and the chamber in your gun as the measure. Max OAL for 9x19 is 1.169"; factory hardball tends to be around 1.15", and factory hollowpoints are usually around 1.12". If you choose the 125 grain round nose lead bullet that just about everyone offers, you can use a round of the Winchester White Box ammo to set up your seating and crimp dies and be awfully close.

How to check that the ammo's not too long: Pull the barrel out of your pistol, and drop a round of that factory ammo into the chamber. Note where the rim ends up. Then do the same with your round. If the rim ends up in the same place, leave your round in the chamber and point the muzzle straight up. If the round falls out, it's not too long.

WSF (the one in your data) would be a good powder to start with.

Best of luck!

One last question with regards to the ammo being too long. I am assumming that if it is too long it will stick in the barrel when I turn it muzzle side up?

Thank you VERY much for the information!!! This is just what I was looking for

Edited August 19, 2007 by sifu128

[revchuck]

I am assumming that if it is too long it will stick in the barrel when I turn it muzzle side up?

Yup. It's a good idea to press down on the loaded round a little to make sure it's all the way in the chamber. Also, make sure your chamber is clean so as not to get a false reading (if there's crud in there, the round might stick even if it's right).

[oldtrooper]

Like it was said earlier always start below a recommended charge and work up slowly looking for signs of excessive pressure. It was also said that all guns are different and that is so true.

With that in mind the following load was recommended by an experienced shooter for IDPA and it works fine in my pistol. Very accurate and easy to control.

Glock G17 Barsto barrel 145gr. Round Nose lead bullet (Valiant)

5.0gr HS6

Federal Small Pistol Primers

1.145 Overall length

938 Avg. velocity for a power factor of 136

Will hold a 3.0" group at 50 yard from a sandbagged rest which is more than enough accuracy for most IDPA distances.

Watch for bullet setback in 9mm. If the case wall tension allows the bullet to move back on striking the feed ramp pressures can increase dramatically. Push a loaded round against the edge of the loading bench after you measure the overall length. If it moves back any you need to take care of that especially in the 9mm.

[sifu128]

Like it was said earlier always start below a recommended charge and work up slowly looking for signs of excessive pressure. It was also said that all guns are different and that is so true.

With that in mind the following load was recommended by an experienced shooter for IDPA and it works fine in my pistol. Very accurate and easy to control.

Glock G17 Barsto barrel 145gr. Round Nose lead bullet (Valiant)

5.0gr HS6

Federal Small Pistol Primers

1.145 Overall length

938 Avg. velocity for a power factor of 136

Will hold a 3.0" group at 50 yard from a sandbagged rest which is more than enough accuracy for most IDPA distances.

Watch for bullet setback in 9mm. If the case wall tension allows the bullet to move back on striking the feed ramp pressures can increase dramatically. Push a loaded round against the edge of the loading bench after you measure the overall length. If it moves back any you need to take care of that especially in the 9mm.

Very cool, this helps a great deal. I will have to get some 145g bullets on the next round as I already had some items coming prior to this email. Right now I got some Titegroup powder and 124g lead bullets (i believe all molly coated). I will use your stats for the next round to see what I get.

Now I do have a question though perhaps you can answer. Based on the powder companies web site they list winchester powder for the 124 g as per my post. I dont even see 124g bullets being an option with Titegroup. My question is how can I find out what the numbers are for that powder type if it is not listed on their web site?

TIA

[buddy_fuentes]

There are many reloading resources in this forum and others. Also there are reloading sites with buckets of information on the net. Just be careful when copying and using the information. There are people that load without caution, misprints, and many other variables that could cause a catastrophe. As stated before, start below the listed load and work you way up using a chronograph and looking for pressure signs. Mid-Way or Cabella's sell a Chronograph for about $80.00 to get you started.

Most powder manufacturers have free reloading pamphlets that are available on line and at local retailers.

Buddy

[Z Rider]

I used this load at the NE Regional IDPA worked real well out of my M&P. Berry's 147gr plated RN over 3.6 gr of W231 at 1.13oal croned at 864 fps for a power factor of 127,000. Real soft shooting and real accurate.

[Graham Smith]

Here are a few tips I have picked up over the past two months that have helped me.

When it comes to checking your rounds for length and diameter, get a good max cartridge gauge like the ones from L.E.Wilson. They are a lot easier to use than your barrel.

When it comes to your PF, remember that on any given day, for any given weather, for any given batch of rounds, for any given chronometer, there will be some variations in your velocity. So don't cut it too fine or you may find that on the day you shoot, you come in at at 124 PF rather than a 126. If you work up loads that give you a PF in the 127 to 130 range, then you will have some wiggle room.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Graham Smith

[Bones]

Z Rider -

How did you finish up at the NERs? The 147 gr Berrys plated bullet is a great product.

There is no good reason to shoot lead bullets for IDPA. For my health and the health of fellow shooters and SOs I avoid them. Lead bullet accuracy is not required in IDPA.

Craig

[sifu128]

I was only using the black molly coated bullets because they are cheaper to get than fmj copper. They are selling online for 150 bucks for 3000. I would have no problem shooting copper but was unable to find a deal like that.

Going to http://www.cabelas.com/ I was able to find that 8 boxes of 9mm 124 Gr. HP, RN, and FP are 14.99 per box * 8 = 120 for 2000 bullets and about 150 for 2000 147. Has anyone found it cheaper?

I am open to suggestions

Edited August 23, 2007 by sifu128

[RePete]

I'm using 3.9gr Unique under a 147gr Frontier Plated bullet.

137 PF.

[Z Rider]

Z Rider -

How did you finish up at the NERs? The 147 gr Berrys plated bullet is a great product.

There is no good reason to shoot lead bullets for IDPA. For my health and the health of fellow shooters and SOs I avoid them. Lead bullet accuracy is not required in IDPA.

Craig

3rd SSP SS Starting using Barry's on your recomemdation.

Lou

[KirbyAU]

Guys,

my favorite 9mm loads for 125gn lead projectiles is 6.0gn of W540 or Herco.

Both are very consistant loads with no leading in my pistols and soft recoil.

PF 130.

Kirby.

[jailer252]

For IDPA I use a Berry's 147gr over 3.4 grains of universal clays. Usually is makes about a 128-130PF out of my glock 34. At the NE regional match it just squeaked over the 125PF mark. I re-checked it when I got home from the match and it made 128-130PF. Upon further review I learned that the gun used to chrono the rounds at the match did not have a glock factory barrel but an aftermarket which I think led to a little slower numbers. Very very light recoil and more accurate than I will ever be...

[Paul Burtchell]

For IDPA I use a Berry's 147gr over 3.4 grains of universal clays. Usually is makes about a 128-130PF out of my glock 34. At the NE regional match it just squeaked over the 125PF mark. I re-checked it when I got home from the match and it made 128-130PF. Upon further review I learned that the gun used to chrono the rounds at the match did not have a glock factory barrel but an aftermarket which I think led to a little slower numbers. Very very light recoil and more accurate than I will ever be...

What # recoil spring are you using? Factory?? I have a Glock 34 that I use for IDPA and I'm about to start reloading for it. Sights, trigger group are modified, but I'm still using a factory recoil guide rod and spring, works great with 115 WWB, but I want something much milder. Thanks in advance.

[HoMiE]

I run 4.7 gr. of WSF and 124 gr. Montana Gold JHPs OAL 1.145" i get 130+PF out of my G34. Using lead bullets start a little lower and work your way up. I also run a 13# ISMI recoil spring. Your not supposed to use a metal guide rod in a Glock for IDPA so just get another plastic factory rod and run it uncaptured if you want to change the recoil spring.

[jailer252]

I am using a 13lb spring on my 34 and 17

[Paul Burtchell]

I am using a 13lb spring on my 34 and 17

Thank you.