El Prez

[JThompson]

What are the GM and M times for the El Pres... Say a drop of 5-7 points... what time would you have to do to achieve both M and GM?

Thanks

I was shooting the thing today and the best I could do was around 4.6 down 7. Jake I'm not

Edited June 25, 2007 by JThompson

[Bryan W]

I'd say you ran a GM run with a 4.6 down 7 - Very close in Open and most certainly in Limited.

[Micah]

PM sent

[JThompson]

I'd say you ran a GM run with a 4.6 down 7 - Very close in Open and most certainly in Limited.

It was open, but I was on the ragged a$$ edge there. I was shooting it to work on transitions. I also found the draw and reloads need some work too. I was getting about 1.1-1.3 to first shot and I don't even want to talk about mag changes.

Long way to go.... sigh

[JThompson]

PM sent

Didn't get it Micah?

got it.

Edited June 25, 2007 by JThompson

[Flatland Shooter]

Per the Ohio Classifier Database, the "El Presidente" Classifier (99-11) had a top HF of 11.88.

A "GM" score would be 95% or a HF of 11.286 or better.

A "M" score would be 85% or a HF of 10.098 or better.

Your HF with a time of 4.6 seconds down 7 points is 11.52, definitely a "GM" score.

Well done! (Even Jake would be impressed.)

Bill

[JThompson]

Per the Ohio Classifier Database, the "El Presidente" Classifier (99-11) had a top HF of 11.88.

A "GM" score would be 95% or a HF of 11.286 or better.

A "M" score would be 85% or a HF of 10.098 or better.

Your HF with a time of 4.6 seconds down 7 points is 11.52, definitely a "GM" score.

Well done! (Even Jake would be impressed.)

Bill

Bah, the timer must have been on the blink. Noway I shot Gm on that thing.

How Jake ever got that down to 3s, I'll never know. Boggles the mind of meer mortals.

Edited June 25, 2007 by JThompson

[HSMITH]

Best I have ever put down in a match is a 5.20something, I will normally run it around 5.75-6 and drop 0-4 points. Little stages like that won't win the match but you can sure hurt yourself on them. I shoot them as fast as I can shoot them safely, and make hay when I get to the field courses.

Don't know what I can do in practice, because I don't practice LOL. I can dryfire it comfortably down around 4.6, with a few runs I am pretty confident I could get one close if not that low and down around 5 or 6 points but there is no room for anything at all to go even a tiny bit wrong for me at that speed.

4.6 is hauling ass Jim, seriously. That would be flat out, nothing held back for me, and I can turn and draw just over a second and reload just under a second. You have seen my splits and transitions with a Limited gun at least, so you have a ballpark idea of what my ability level is. You are making some serious progress to turn in a 4.6 El Pres, and that doesn't matter if it was the 2nd or 22nd run. Good job!!!!

[JThompson]

Best I have ever put down in a match is a 5.20something, I will normally run it around 5.75-6 and drop 0-4 points. Little stages like that won't win the match but you can sure hurt yourself on them. I shoot them as fast as I can shoot them safely, and make hay when I get to the field courses.

Don't know what I can do in practice, because I don't practice LOL. I can dryfire it comfortably down around 4.6, with a few runs I am pretty confident I could get one close if not that low and down around 5 or 6 points but there is no room for anything at all to go even a tiny bit wrong for me at that speed.

4.6 is hauling ass Jim, seriously. That would be flat out, nothing held back for me, and I can turn and draw just over a second and reload just under a second. You have seen my splits and transitions with a Limited gun at least, so you have a ballpark idea of what my ability level is. You are making some serious progress to turn in a 4.6 El Pres, and that doesn't matter if it was the 2nd or 22nd run. Good job!!!!

Thanks Howard, but I would be just as likely to throw 2 mikes going at that speed. I will get it down though. The more I shot it the better the hits got. I'm just not used to looking for the dot at that speed. I shot it something like 15 times and the fast run was about 8-9. I backed down a bit because I was getting to many mikes or wood flying. LOL

It's a new load too and I was getting used to the impulse from it. I decided to try some 7625 with MG 124s. It pushes a little harder, but I think I like the dot movement. It puts up some nice clouds too

[pmd]

I was getting about 1.1-1.3 to first shot and I don't even want to talk about mag changes.

Long way to go.... sigh

Not trying to highjack your thread - but what's the secret to the first shot? I just started working on this drill and the best I've been doing on my first shot is in the 1.5s - 1.7s.

I know I need to work on my spin/draw as it feels choppy.

I know there are a ton of threads on the "turn and draw" but how do you turn and draw? do you rotate on the heal or the ball of your feet - which way do you turn/rotate? any additional advice would be great.

Good shooting by the way!

Paul

Edited June 25, 2007 by pmd

[JThompson]

I was getting about 1.1-1.3 to first shot and I don't even want to talk about mag changes.

Long way to go.... sigh

Not trying to highjack your thread - but what's the secret to the first shot? I just started working on this drill and the best I've been doing on my first shot is in the 1.5s - 1.7s.

I know I need to work on my spin/draw as it feels choppy.

I know there are a ton of threads on the "turn and draw" but how do you turn and draw? do you rotate on the heal or the ball of your feet - which way do you turn/rotate? any additional advice would be great.

Good shooting by the way!

Paul

I don't know if this is right, but here's what I have been doing. In the setup, I put most of my weight on my left foot (ball) When the buzzer sounds, I whip my head around while pushing off with my left foot. My right foot moves back a bit and turns as far as I can and the weight is transfered to the right foot. The twist in my foot helps me turn the rest of the way around. At this point most of the weight is on my right foot, and remains that way while I use the left to steady myself and make adjustments . The first shot is broke before I am completely turned toward the target. Almost like it would be for a bullseye strong arm only shot. I never really am "set" until I go for the mag change, at that point I square off and have a more solid base for the second run.That's how I remember what I do... it might not be complete, or the right way to do it, but there you are.

I really need a video camera to check out some of this stuff, but a I can't afford to buy one yet. A buddy said he had one I could use, but his wife recently left and so did the camera.

Be very careful trying to use anything I say, as I only do what works for me. Have a look at Jake's video on the quest for the sub 3. I pulled a lot of what I do from watching that video. I must have watched it a hundred times.

JT

Edited June 25, 2007 by JThompson

[dirtypool40]

Yup, using the mid-range of "Down 6" and a low ender of 95%, a 5.25 run scrapes you in as a GM (LIMITED).

5.25 seconds, 54 points, 10.28hf, roughly 95.14%. You need all 60 in 5.0 to hit 100% in Open.

Your "best" is an interesting number, but you want a card based on an average. I'm one of those that thinks the hf for "El Prez" is a little soft. But yes, those points at 4.7ish, you're over the "hun".

Edited June 25, 2007 by dirtypool40

[JThompson]

Yup, using the mid-range of "Down 6" and a low ender of 95%, a 5.25 run scrapes you in as a GM (LIMITED).

5.25 seconds, 54 points, 10.28hf, roughly 95.14%. You need all 60 in 5.0 to hit 100% in Open.

Your "best" is an interesting number, but you want a card based on an average. I'm one of those that thinks the hf for "El Prez" is a little soft. But yes, those points at 4.7ish, you're over the "hun".

8-9 tries to do it in practice is a long way from being able to do it cold first go. While it's nice to see that number, it's going to take a ton of work to be able to do it consistantly and cold. I'm going to do a short practice today and I'll see what it looks like cold.

JT

[dirtypool40]

Try this...

Step out of the car, dry fire it 2-3 time like you would at a match.

Run it three times, stopping in between to load mags, record scores and paste.

Practice a little, do it again in the middle 3x.

Practice a little, do it again at the end 3x.

You should end up with 9 scores, ranging from really cold, to pretty warmed up.

Like BENOS said in his book, <paraphrased badly> the best runs didn't improve much, but the cold runs got a lot closer to the best, and the average was more consistent with practice.

You're results may vary, but we'd love to hear them.

I was stuck in a close range speed is everything mode about four years ago. I used to practice 10y plate racks or EL PREZ till I could do them both eyes closed. I got in a rut where run after run I'd be 4.65 - 4.85 everytime, in fact that's still about where I shoot it cold / match although I haven't practiced it in a couple years.

Last time I ran through this was in mid-05, and three of us were practicing, all shooting "standard" on amoebas. I got my average THAT DAY down to right at 4.0 and some "swing for the fence" runs, a might faster. It was a good day and I can remember the beep sounding long and the magwell looking like it would smash me in the face. We were rotating through so you couldn't get too warm, but I hit a whole series where every load I hit was down around .90 which is REALLY good for me.

Edited June 25, 2007 by dirtypool40

[JThompson]

Try this...

Step out of the car, dry fire it 2-3 time like you would at a match.

Run it three times, stopping in between to load mags, record scores and paste.

Practice a little, do it again in the middle 3x.

Practice a little, do it again at the end 3x.

You should end up with 9 scores, ranging from really cold, to pretty warmed up.

Like BENOS said in his book, <paraphrased badly> the best runs didn't improve much, but the cold runs got a lot closer to the best, and the average was more consistent with practice.

You're results may vary, but we'd love to hear them.

I was stuck in a close range speed is everything mode about four years ago. I used to practice 10y plate racks or EL PREZ till I could do them both eyes closed. I got in a rut where run after run I'd be 4.65 - 4.85 everytime, in fact that's still about where I shoot it cold / match although I haven't practiced it in a couple years.

Last time I ran through this was in mid-05, and three of us were practicing, all shooting "standard" on amoebas. I got my average THAT DAY down to right at 4.0 and some "swing for the fence" runs, a might faster. It was a good day and I can remember the beep sounding long and the magwell looking like it would smash me in the face. We were rotating through so you couldn't get too warm, but I hit a whole series where every load I hit was down around .90 which is REALLY good for me.

I'll give it a go and let you know how it goes.

The range I'm on our longest shot is 25yds... I have never shot any IPSC stuff longer than that and usually it's much shorter. If I set up the stage though it's a lot of long shorts. Some of the people grumble, but I just laugh and say they are spoiled.

My trigger has developed a nasty little catch in it. It kinda like a pre-break and it drops about 1/16 or more and then the real break comes. I dunno what's causing it, but I need to get it looked at or try and figure out what's going on there. Strange thing is if you cock the hammer by hand or rack the slide real easy, it doesn't do it. If you rack the slide fast it does...???

Thanks for the advice.

Best,

JT

BTW I have Brian's book too.

Edited June 25, 2007 by JThompson

[HSMITH]

Jim, Rich Dettlehouser is down there not all that far from you, and he does great work if you need a health and welfare check up done on your blaster. I can look at it next time I am down there but I am not sure I will make the next match, to much shidadue around here.....

[JThompson]

Jim, Rich Dettlehouser is down there not all that far from you, and he does great work if you need a health and welfare check up done on your blaster. I can look at it next time I am down there but I am not sure I will make the next match, to much shidadue around here.....

I already asked him about it and was going to take it in to him, but I need to get in some of the money I have out. I hope I get some checks in today.

Best

[HSMITH]

He can shoot too so I wouldn't dribble a check into his shop either lol

[JThompson]

He can shoot too so I wouldn't dribble a check into his shop either lol

Ya, he's a GM as I recall.

[JThompson]

Eric,

Had some stuff come up and didn't make it to the range. I'm going to get in there tomorrow and I'll post the times then.

Best,

JT

Edited June 27, 2007 by JThompson

[JThompson]

5.3-5.6 hot cold or in the middle... all 7-10 down. The average was 5.4 9 down. The last go I indexed and had 2M in 4.69.

God that was hard to admit...

JT

[HSMITH]

Jim, those are solid 80% averages. That is better than you think, by a lot!

[dirtypool40]

5.3-5.6 hot cold or in the middle... all 7-10 down. The average was 5.4 9 down. The last go I indexed and had 2M in 4.69.

God that was hard to admit...

JT

Give us some practice times that are only down 3-5 points. Those often become "down 7-10" under pressure but they give you a better idea of a true speed you can run under control.

Also, just another tip to track, keep an eye on splits vs. transitions and draw vs reload.

Look at it this way; if draw & reload hover around 1.35 - 1.5 ish, splits AND transitions around maybe .30 ish, that would put you at a very smooth, boring 6.0. Shoot it down zero and you're at a "10 hf" which is GM level in Limited.

I'll bet you're going faster than this on splits and slower on transitions.

[JThompson]

Here are the times

Cold

5.28 -7

5.45 -10

5.32 -8

5.3 -9

Warm

4.99 -10

4.97 -9

4.68 -20

[JThompson]

5.3-5.6 hot cold or in the middle... all 7-10 down. The average was 5.4 9 down. The last go I indexed and had 2M in 4.69.

God that was hard to admit...

JT

Give us some practice times that are only down 3-5 points. Those often become "down 7-10" under pressure but they give you a better idea of a true speed you can run under control.

Also, just another tip to track, keep an eye on splits vs. transitions and draw vs reload.

Look at it this way; if draw & reload hover around 1.35 - 1.5 ish, splits AND transitions around maybe .30 ish, that would put you at a very smooth, boring 6.0. Shoot it down zero and you're at a "10 hf" which is GM level in Limited.

I'll bet you're going faster than this on splits and slower on transitions.

Transitions are coming around... I saw a lot of .3s. Splits are plenty fast, but where I really need work is reloads. They were from a fastest of 1.2 all the way to 1.8 with a mistake of knocking the safety on sometimes. I need to put some time in dry changing mags. Did I mention I HATE dry? Oh] turn draw is solid 1.1-1.3.