Brazos SC Shooter Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I wanted to know if this was a no no. I have strategy quesitons that I wanted to float by other shooters in advance of the Indiana Sectional. I won't be seeing any of my local shooters before the match so I thought I might come here. I know the stages will likely be different in person. I am still working on coming up with efficient stage strategies and could use feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 If considered poor etiquette, then I'm guilty as charged. Several times I've initiated discussions how to handle a stage as well as put my 2 cents in when others have had stage questions. This forum is for learning. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Trying to come up with stage plans before looking at them in real life is a poor idea. All I use the stage briefings for are the number of shots and strange start positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos SC Shooter Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 My intent isn't to solidify my plan in advance of seeing the stage in the real world, but more a situation where if we assumed the stage was going to be exactly as it is on paper would approach A or B be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos SC Shooter Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Trying to come up with stage plans before looking at them in real life is a poor idea. Thanks Matt. I have heard this more than once today. Guess I should listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Trying to come up with stage plans before looking at them in real life is a poor idea. All I use the stage briefings for are the number of shots and strange start positions. That depends on the quality of the stage plans. A good detailed set of plans (like the USPSA classifiers) advise us of not only strange start positions, but also give us some idea as to how far into the stage we can go before a reload, where I may need to slow down and where I can speed up. For an example of good stage diagrams, look at the stages published by Scott Reese each month before the local IMPACT - INFINITY match. Bill http://www.texassouthsection.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 My worry is coming up with a plan, and then not truly looking at the stage from an objective point of view when you get there, and then not seeing a plan that would be better... Posting them up here and just using them as a training tool is a great idea. I might suggest posting up stages other than those you are going to shoot this weekend though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos SC Shooter Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 My worry is coming up with a plan, and then not truly looking at the stage from an objective point of view when you get there, and then not seeing a plan that would be better...Posting them up here and just using them as a training tool is a great idea. I might suggest posting up stages other than those you are going to shoot this weekend though. Unfortunately I have not run into at least one of these situations before. Here is what I am pondering. Plesae jump in. I think it is better to shoot a full visible targets when possible, but in this situation it requirers extra movement since there are activators on one side that will block all but head shots on the other side of the stage. This happens for both sides of the stage. So the trade off is the time spent moving from side to side 4 times for 4 full targets vs. 3 times for 2 full and 2 head shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 How long is it going to take you to move the extra distance, and how long to hit a smaller target? Figure that out and you have your answer. I'd have to see it to give you a better answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I'd have to see it to give you a better answer. And so would anyone else, really... I think Matt's told you about all anyone can - know how much time it takes you to move, and how much time to engage an upper A/B at different yardages, and you can determine it for certain when you see the stage in person. There are certain basic things that can be said about course descriptions. More experienced shooters can clue you in to the ones you don't know - besides the obvious stuff, they're namely things like noting the stages you think you might need to spend more time observing, noting specific areas to check out on a stage if something jumps out at you, and then reviewing it for skills you might want to be sure to brush up on, or revisit in your practice routine (strange start positions, shooting strong or weak handed, getting into different positions like kneeling or prone, etc). Until you really get on the courses themselves, there's just no way to really tell for certain what they're going to look like. The only exception to this is if there's a classifier in the match - you can obviously set that up exactly as it will be ahead of time, if you like. But, there's usually not a whole lot of strategy to discuss with a classifier, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Drew, please tell me that you are getting to the match a day early to check out the stages. 5 minutes is seldom enough to create an effective plan, especially at this match. I can only speak for myself and infer the answer from my M class wingmen, but it is generally acceptable to ask someone for stage breakdown advice before the match begins. Once the match has started, and I am running the stage through my head before I shoot it, I usually don't want to talk to anyone when I am "In the hole". If someone asks me how I am going to shoot a stage, I'm always more than happy to tell them: but I don't want to hear their plans if it differs from mine. Once my plan is programmed, I don't want to muddle my mental image. I'm driving down Saturday with my friends, ans shooting Sunday morning. PM me with your phone number, and I'll give you a jingle when I get to the range. Although there are some things that you can "cram" by looking at stage diagrams (like table starts or other funky starting positions), don't bet on the printed stages being too much help on match day. I am guilty of obsessing over printed stage diagrams in the past, but realized that the best medicine for that is seeing the stages early. Edited to add: Even if someone is in my class and division, if I discover something that gives me an edge on a stage, I'm gonna share it with my competition. You will find that most serious competitors have this same feeling...if they don't, then their advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 ..If someone asks me how I am going to shoot a stage, I'm always more than happy to tell them: but I don't want to hear their plans if it differs from mine. Once my plan is programmed, I don't want to muddle my mental image. I want to hear all the possible ways anybody is going to do the stage. If I see right away that their idea is better than mine, then I'll switch my strategy, or incorporate it into mine. If I don't see it right away, I'll just use my plan. I have been known to change my plans at the last minute. Edited to add: Even if someone is in my class and division, if I discover something that gives me an edge on a stage, I'm gonna share it with my competition. You will find that most serious competitors have this same feeling...if they don't, then their advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. I too will share, or at least discuss it, among my squad mates. I figure since I'm willing to take advice, I'm willing to give advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 ..If someone asks me how I am going to shoot a stage, I'm always more than happy to tell them: but I don't want to hear their plans if it differs from mine. Once my plan is programmed, I don't want to muddle my mental image. I want to hear all the possible ways anybody is going to do the stage. If I see right away that their idea is better than mine, then I'll switch my strategy, or incorporate it into mine. If I don't see it right away, I'll just use my plan. I have been known to change my plans at the last minute. That doesn't read exactly what I was trying to convey. Let me try again: I am all about exploring every option, and hearing what people are thinking about a particular COF. Once I have decided my plan, and have burned it in, there is no more room for discussion: I am shooting it the way that I have planned. It is the 10-15 minutes before I shoot that particular COF that I do not want to entertain any other ways of shooting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos SC Shooter Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am going to get to the match early and observe. As for Matt's question I don't really have an answer and won't until I see the stage. I guess that was kind of his point. Here is the stage I was talking about for those who are interested. 40 S&W Love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 You'll just have to shoot the popper and get to the other side faster than the dropout covers the target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Use the force, and bend two bullets around the barricade to strike the open target on the opposite side of the range, of course. That's the obvious solution.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Those side-dropping targets are usually fast as hell, so my off-the-cuff answer is this: Shoot it as you see it. I'm guessing that the fallers will be slow enough that you hit the popper, then the target, then the exposed target, and fast enough that you won't lose time doing so. If I'm wrong, then you'll lose a scorching .5 seconds on the whole stage waiting for them, but you really can't know until you see them activate. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 (edited) edited 'scuse my ramblings... Don't formulate a stage plan at this time. Like others have said already, without seeing the actual stage you really can't guarantee the best plan for the stage. This looks like a stage that 5 minutes should be more than enough time to sort through it. Edited June 13, 2007 by Sharyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 My worry is coming up with a plan, and then not truly looking at the stage from an objective point of view when you get there, and then not seeing a plan that would be better... This statement made me back up and read it 3 or 4 times. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 My worry is coming up with a plan, and then not truly looking at the stage from an objective point of view when you get there, and then not seeing a plan that would be better... This statement made me back up and read it 3 or 4 times. Well said. I used'ta come up with a stage plan, then make myself find a few different alternative ways that I might also shoot the stage. I haven't done that for a while...and, ya know, I think I still need to. Of course, when it comes time to choose...decide. Lock in one plan and execute it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 ..If someone asks me how I am going to shoot a stage, I'm always more than happy to tell them: but I don't want to hear their plans if it differs from mine. Once my plan is programmed, I don't want to muddle my mental image. I want to hear all the possible ways anybody is going to do the stage. If I see right away that their idea is better than mine, then I'll switch my strategy, or incorporate it into mine. If I don't see it right away, I'll just use my plan. I have been known to change my plans at the last minute. That doesn't read exactly what I was trying to convey. Let me try again: I am all about exploring every option, and hearing what people are thinking about a particular COF. Once I have decided my plan, and have burned it in, there is no more room for discussion: I am shooting it the way that I have planned. It is the 10-15 minutes before I shoot that particular COF that I do not want to entertain any other ways of shooting it. +1 I'm with you on that one. I don't want to be rude to the other shooters, but once I've got a plan in mind I don't want to even hear other ideas. Almost every time I've done that it's messed me up. Once I've picked, that's all I want to think about, even if it's different from what I see most other people doing. Several times I've had that happen, shot it my way, and won the stage. Now, when I'm close to shooting and someone asks me if I have a plan I laugh and say "shoot all the targets as fast as I can" and hope that's enough of an answer. Everyone has different strengths and shortcomings and what might be the best way for one person to shoot a stage isn't necessarily the best for anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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