eerw Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 the deal is the scope is not in the way.. if you are shooting through the lens on the optic you are shooting it wrong.. the beauty of the dot is that it allows a focus on the dot while on the same plane as the target.. you should be able to see the target, see the dot..but not the scope.. to try this..put a piece of target tape over the lens of your dot.. (one the target side, not the diode side). with both eyes open you should be able to still see the dot on the target.. you will find that the dot will float and you will not be hampered by looking through the lens.. you think the iron sights are faster because you a using the gun's index to shoot..you are accepting less of a precise sight picture to make the shots.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 (edited) the deal is the scope is not in the way..if you are shooting through the lens on the optic you are shooting it wrong.. the beauty of the dot is that it allows a focus on the dot while on the same plane as the target.. you should be able to see the target, see the dot..but not the scope.. to try this..put a piece of target tape over the lens of your dot.. (one the target side, not the diode side). with both eyes open you should be able to still see the dot on the target.. you will find that the dot will float and you will not be hampered by looking through the lens.. you think the iron sights are faster because you a using the gun's index to shoot..you are accepting less of a precise sight picture to make the shots.. Open and limited have 2 different sight pictures, the scope is the what makes people think they need to aim more. They don't, they just have to figure out what they need to see with the gun/dot sight in relation to the target. When talking about the lens, everyone shoots through the lens..................To see the dot on the target you have to look through the lens. The tape thing works but your still going to look through the lens to see as much as possible. I was talking literally about looking through the lens when it really wasn't needed on the close stuff. Close target-all you need to do find an acceptable sight picture, period. The dot sight tends to make people think they need to look through the lens on close targets when they don't really need to. If you already looking through the lens instead just indexing you naturally want to find the dot because thats what you do every other time you shoot. I think what is trying to be said is the sight is in the way of getting the same sight picture as a limited gun because you don't see the same thing. If this wasn't true we wouldn't be having this discussion. As it has already been stated, having a dot on the gun shouldn't make you slower. You just have to learn what an acceptable sight picture is in with dot sight. As far as Todd Jarret goes, like it was said it is faster for him. I'm going to believe what he says about his own shooting. Flyin40 Edited March 26, 2007 by Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Awwwww heck...maybe TJ was talkin' smack...getting his competition focused on speed instead of their shooting. That, or a multi-time Champion was sticking negative imagery into his own head before his shooting ??? Or, maybe he was throwing a thought out there and seeing what kind of feedback he got in discussion...TJ and the Socratic method, hmmmm?? Or...whatever. Take it all with a grain of salt. I'm with Jake, figure out a way to make/let it work. Don't accept that there is a problem that you can't find an answer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basman Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 When I first switched from limited to open about 18 months ago, the close targets (arms lenght if you want) did take more time. Why? I "belived" that I needed to see the dot on all shots, well after shooting open for 18 months I'm just as fast, if not faster on those arms lenght shots then before. learn to trust your index. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Most up close shooting is done strictly by index anyway.... In fact, we shot a stage at the DTC this past weekend where one array was situated so that in order to get to the A-zone of two targets in an up close, but very awkward array, you actually had to curl the gun around a pair of no-shoots, trusting your grip and visual picture of the gun - you had no sightline down the slide (if you view Chet's hatcam video, its the third array on stage 5 - with all the barrels, and the four 4 target arrays....). Real up close stuff... With an Open gun, you learn to see "through" the scope in these situations with arms length targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I've told this story before but since I'm getting old I'll repeat it. Back when optics were just coming on the scene (and there wasn't a Limited Class), when doping a stage, we'd often say things like, "This is a good scope stage," or, "This is good stage for iron sights." Then after a few months we stopped making those comments because we realized that every stage was a good scope stage. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 btt I was looking for something else and found this topic again. Good stuff...especially for those that figured out this thread isn't about the equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) I tried the tape on the scope thing, its cool. Sometimes you just don't realize how you do things. Edited February 14, 2008 by AWLAZS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'll admit... there are stages where I'd prefer a Limited gun, I have to wonder... after this past weekend.... if this is still true...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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