Rule 2.3 Course Modification

[tpcdvc]

Here is a question I have been thinking about and can't seem to find an answer.

So here is the situation. Our squad started the match at 7am. The first couple of shooters shot and then a serious fog rolled in that made the entire back array disappear. I could not shoot it the way I had planned because I had planned to take one of the back targets to eliminate a position. Most people shot it this way (eliminating same said target). However, about 3 shooters had to change their plans at the last minute and we all know what can happen.

I clearly did not shoot the same COF as almost everyone else. Should I have asked to wait for the fog to clear? Ask to be put at the end of the line in order to get my new plan enough time to sink in? Ask for a reshoot after the crash and burn ( I forgot to shoot 2 targets). I shot the next 9 stages clean and that one stage cost me big time. The green book mentions course surfaces and bagging targets but I can find no reference to fog or the like.

What do you think?

[ima45dv8]

Unfortunately, I think this simply falls under the "lay of the green" philosophy used in that silly game based on tools ill-designed for the purpose (golf, I think it's called )..

You could ask to be moved down in the rotation, and if the RO and your squad mates don't object, could be done. As for the idea of asking for a reshoot because you forgot to engage 2 targets, there is nothing in the rulebook to support something like that.

[tpcdvc]

Unfortunately, I think this simply falls under the "lay of the green" philosophy used in that silly game based on tools ill-designed for the purpose (golf, I think it's called )..

You could ask to be moved down in the rotation, and if the RO and your squad mates don't object, could be done. As for the idea of asking for a reshoot because you forgot to engage 2 targets, there is nothing in the rulebook to support something like that.

Well I wouldn't ask for a reshoot based upon the two targets, I would ask for a reshoot based on the COF change.

[ima45dv8]

If I shoot a CoF in the morning while the sun is low on the horizon and it's shining in my eyes, and my buddy shoots it in the afternoon when the sun is a bit higher and isn't shining in his eyes as much, would you as the MD grant my request for a reshoot based on the fact that we did not shoot the same CoF?

[Crusher]

No rule I am aware of covers "weather conditions". "You pays ur $$$$$$$ and takes ur chances".

The last time I remember being hammered was an level III with torential rains at the rate of 1.5" per hour, no lightening so we shot.

A8 in 04 at Topton, quack...quack... quack.

[n2ipsc]

...I wouldn't ask for a reshoot based upon the two targets, I would ask for a reshoot based on the COF change...

The COF didn't change - the ambient conditions did. The only exception would be whether the weather caused a physical change in the COF, to wit, wind gusts blowing targets down or away, or blowing down poppers or walls.

Otherwise, it's no different than if it had started to drizzle - or stopped drizzling - or the sun came shining through...

[davidball]

Weather conditions, so long as they do not change the COF (as explained above) or cause dangerous conditions (unsafe footing, lightning, etc.) are a "luck of the draw" kind of thing.

[tpcdvc]

I understand what you are saying. But the fact remains that the target was not available for me and a couple others when it was available to everyone else.

I'm not upset about this at all. I'm not even whining. I'm trying to learn from my experience and figure out what to do if something like this happens again. But I do think there is a large difference between a hard rain, and not being able to see the targets at all. Maybe it is something that can be addressed in the 2008 book.

Thanks for all the input.

[TRNinTX]

Any rule addressing weather conditions would turn match administration into a nightmare. Can you imagine the number of appeals/requests for reshoots based on what a person liked or disliked with the weather?

At last year's A6 it started pouring down rain on Sunday, definitely not the same conditions as Friday. Are you going to stop the match until everything dries up?

[tpcdvc]

Any rule addressing weather conditions would turn match administration into a nightmare. Can you imagine the number of appeals/requests for reshoots based on what a person liked or disliked with the weather?

At last year's A6 it started pouring down rain on Sunday, definitely not the same conditions as Friday. Are you going to stop the match until everything dries up?

You can see the targets when it rains, wind blows, hot, cold, sun in your eyes ect. If there were to be any such rule made it would have to be very specific. Bottom line, you can't shoot a target unless you can see the target. Way different than rain.

[open17]

Luck of the draw. Area 1, 2003? in Bend---day one in the morning it was snowing.

Freshly painted steel against snow, in a snowstorm. Fun. By day 3 it was sunscreen

time.

If the fog was thick enough that targets were not visible, I'm surprised that the MD didn't

stop shooting until it cleared. It's a safety issue. If the RO can't see the far end of the

bay he can not be certain that the bay is clear of people taping, setting steel etc.

[LPatterson]

Someone must have had the same or similar problem as you as there is a new rule proposed to deal with climatic conditions. 2.3.6

[tpcdvc]

Luck of the draw. Area 1, 2003? in Bend---day one in the morning it was snowing.

Freshly painted steel against snow, in a snowstorm. Fun. By day 3 it was sunscreen

time.

If the fog was thick enough that targets were not visible, I'm surprised that the MD didn't

stop shooting until it cleared. It's a safety issue. If the RO can't see the far end of the

bay he can not be certain that the bay is clear of people taping, setting steel etc.

I wish I was there in 03 it sounds like a fun time.

It probably would have been wise to halt shooting for a period of time as a safety precaution. It was only an issue for 3 or 4 shooters then the sun burned enough of it off to see the far targets. I didn't even think of any of this until I got home to TN. We were all operating under the luck of the draw kind of philosophy too.

I'm glad to hear about 2.3.6

[Flexmoney]

tpcdvc,

I think you have a very valid question.

If I were the Match Director, and you came to me with this, I would consider pulling that stage from the match...or calling a cease-fire until the conditions improved (if it were an over-all safety issue).

At the very least...I'd let you know that I was going to take about 5 minutes to thinking it over...and you might want to use that time to get your new plan burnt in in case you had to shoot.

No reshoot...always ask before you shoot.

[richardschennberg]

At best, BEFORE shooting you could have gotten approval to go talk to the MD or RM. That might have stalled your run (and any squad mates that wanted to wait for the decision) enough for the weather to improve, or give the guys in charge a chance to decide whether you could reschedule the squad to the end of the day.

It also would have been fair to spend extra time looking the stage over, both before anyone shot and when you were the on-deck shooter. If the CRO would not give you enough time, then tell him you are not ready. He could give you more time or let the next shooter in the lineup go next. I don't think he can give you a zero unless everyone on the squad has already shot and you still are not ready.

However, once you have shot your score should be final.