Sti Double-stack For Duty...reliable?

[meh92]

I know this isn't a forum for "defense" guns per se, but the STI guns are so popular in competition I figured I'd get some really good feedback here. I'm kicking around the idea of using an STI double stack pistol for municipal police duty use in NE Ohio. I haven't bought anything yet and I haven't even really decided what configuration I'd choose. I figured I'd get some feedback before going any further.

I would prefer a full-sized 5" gun. I really like the idea of an American hi-cap gun with 1911 controls and profile, but I've heard so much about finickey operation from double-stack 1911's that it gives me pause as to whether it is suitable for fighting. I'm not looking for an ultra-tight 1.5" group shooter if it means compromizing reliability. 3-4" @ 25 yds would be perfectly accpetable if it ran like a top, even when dirty, wet, frozen, or otherwise abused. I take immaculate and regular care of my duty equipment, but I'd like a little "wiggle room" in reliability just in case I found myself in extreme circumstances and the gun wasn't in "top" maintenance.

.45 ACP and .40 S&W would be my caliber choices. With the current rise in ammunition prices (and reloading components) .40 is financially a better choice for me. Bullets are a little cheaper and I have a free supply of 40 brass to load my own practice rounds... but it has been once-fired through a Glock 22. With full-size/length resizing, is Glock-fired .40 UMC and Speer brass viable to shoot through an STI double stack (for practice)? I have plenty of reloading experience with the .45 but not so much with .40.

Is the .45 version more inherently reliable than the .40 version with factory ammo? I have heard that like any other 1911, the longer .45 is a tad more feed reliable since the platform was designed around the longer cartridge.

Any other feedback, first-hand experience, or technical info would be greatly appreciated. If a builder or gunsmith would chime in I'd sincerely appreciate it.

Thank you

[EricW]

No drawbacks I can think of. If I was an LEO and had the option, I'd carry an STI or a Caspian Hi Cap. We pound the living bejeezus out of these guns. We've got the bugs worked out. And I know somebody's going to chime in about the slide stops generally needing to be deactivated on the S_I, but having lived with it for so long, I don't even think of it as a disadvantage anymore.

And I see no reason why *not* to have a good group shooter as your carry gun. All it's going to do is expand your options in a gunfight. Accuracy is confidence. Plus you can do fun stuff at the range like bang gongs at 100 and 200 yards and irritate the hell out of the rifle guys.

Edited February 4, 2007 by EricW

[Wakal]

I've had similar discussions with folks over the years, and it always (for me) comes down to the same thing. I expect my competition guns to run an easy thousand rounds between service of any kind, and do it in any weather and from any angle, without a malfunction. Since all my STI fit that statement, and since almost all my 1/3 gun competitions were with an STI, it was an easy choice.

When I first came to that realization, I quit carrying the CQB and switched to a Triangle Shooting Sports STI Commander in 9 by 23.

If my increasingly failing memory serves, Texas Highway Patrol can carry Dawson STI's. I'd be happy with one of those, if I had to pick from the usual heap of craptacular "the selector's wife got a free trip to Disneyland from Brand X" government-approved gun lists.

But that is just me

Alex

[Jaxshooter]

I would not hesitate to carry my SVs if I was in law enforcement. They run 100 % and I like the double stack grip (I have big hands) not to mention the extra rounds. Look at the volume of rounds we shoot thru these guns every year and they keep running.

If you are going to reload brass that has been fired in a Glock get an undersize resizing die from EGW and a Lee Factory Crimp die and you will not have a problem.

[CDRODA396]

I'm a member of a 1911 forum as well, and they have 22 Manufacturer's threads, plus one for Custom 1911's and Other 1911's. In each thread you can find someone who has had a terrible experience with the gun and the customer service, and STI guns are no different.

But generally, they are the exception rather than the rule, again no different with STI. With so many people putting the number of rounds through the widebody pistols that USPSA/IPSC/IDPA shooters do, if the gun was unreliable, the market would crush them in short order. In order to be competitive, your gun must run reliably or you go home.

I've only owned my STI since November, and after my first match where I had one bad mag issue (replaced internals), and some fumbled mag changes despite the cavernous mag well (a little practice needed), it has settled down and now runs like a champ. I would not hesitate to carry it.

[G-ManBart]

I know this isn't a forum for "defense" guns per se, but the STI guns are so popular in competition I figured I'd get some really good feedback here. I'm kicking around the idea of using an STI double stack pistol for municipal police duty use in NE Ohio. I haven't bought anything yet and I haven't even really decided what configuration I'd choose. I figured I'd get some feedback before going any further.

I would prefer a full-sized 5" gun. I really like the idea of an American hi-cap gun with 1911 controls and profile, but I've heard so much about finickey operation from double-stack 1911's that it gives me pause as to whether it is suitable for fighting. I'm not looking for an ultra-tight 1.5" group shooter if it means compromizing reliability. 3-4" @ 25 yds would be perfectly accpetable if it ran like a top, even when dirty, wet, frozen, or otherwise abused. I take immaculate and regular care of my duty equipment, but I'd like a little "wiggle room" in reliability just in case I found myself in extreme circumstances and the gun wasn't in "top" maintenance.

.45 ACP and .40 S&W would be my caliber choices. With the current rise in ammunition prices (and reloading components) .40 is financially a better choice for me. Bullets are a little cheaper and I have a free supply of 40 brass to load my own practice rounds... but it has been once-fired through a Glock 22. With full-size/length resizing, is Glock-fired .40 UMC and Speer brass viable to shoot through an STI double stack (for practice)? I have plenty of reloading experience with the .45 but not so much with .40.

Is the .45 version more inherently reliable than the .40 version with factory ammo? I have heard that like any other 1911, the longer .45 is a tad more feed reliable since the platform was designed around the longer cartridge.

Any other feedback, first-hand experience, or technical info would be greatly appreciated. If a builder or gunsmith would chime in I'd sincerely appreciate it.

Thank you

I don't have the option of carrying a double-stack 1911, but if I did, I'd order an STI Tactical 5.0, get the night sight option, and replace the recoilmaster guide rod/spring with a standard guide rod and spring, get it tuned by one of the places like Dawson or Brazos and be done with it. Caliber choice would be tough because I can get ammo for the .40 easier than the .45, but we do have both...it's just they're more stingy with the .45 ammo. I reload for both so it wouldn't be a huge issue. I have an STI Edge in .40 that was super tuned by Dawson and it runs 100% on factory ammo with no problems, so I wouldn't shy away from the 40 if you think it will be more economical and you'll get to practice more with it. Also, keep in mind that the prices on the web site are higher than what you'll pay as a LEO. I don't know what the percentage is, but it's probably something like 10% off. About the only negative I can think of would be having to buy all new holsters...ouch!

[HSMITH]

I would carry an STI in 40 without any reservations at all. I really think it would be the ultimate duty handgun. For entry type stuff I don't see how it could get much better than an Open gun......

For the relatively small difference in cost between full custom and production STI I would go full custom. Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports has one of if not the best reputation for reliability.

[TCK]

I used to shoot with a guy that was a swat officer for the adjoining county and his issue weapon was an STI in .40. I can think of huge adantages of carrying a gun with 18-20 rounds.

[FranDoc]

One of my intermediate class instructors was a NE Ohio LEO and couldn't say enough good about his STI 2011. I'm not sure what caliber it was -- 40 or 45ACP. He encouraged me to look at it even though STI is more expensive than some (MULTIPLE posts on forums here discuss the various advantages of STI vs less expensive models) and the 2011 grip is a bit big for my hand.

His shot well in a driving downpour (miserable class day!), while being held at all sorts of odd angles, and he never failed to hit steel at ~10-15 yards even when point-shooting.

I know of police & Grand Masters both who use their STI to extremes and just love them. One of these days I'll be able to justify the purchase .....

[Joe4d]

STI's get a finicky reputation from people doing too much tweaking trying to get that extra once off the trigger or running just a little lighter spring or trying this gizmo piece or another. STI basic setup recomended main and recoil spring weight. Would be on my top list for a duty gun.

[uscbigdawg]

There's nothing wrong with carrying any hi-cap/double stack pistol for duty. Darren Davenport carried his Para on duty that he would use at matches all the time. My carry gun 90% of the time is an STI Edge that I had a buddy do a reliability package on it and it runs Grams Engineering tuned mags.

I expect my competition guns to be as reliable as my carry guns. Period. Doesn't matter the manufacturer. If it doesn't go bang every time, it's not in my safe for too long.

Rich

[dirtypool40]

We need to hear from Pat D. In 2004 I had twin SV short dc light rail blasters built, one by Derek at Millenium the other by Benny Hill. Heinie sights, light rail, very sexy.

Anyhoo, moving OCONUS I ran short of cash and sold one to Pat. It's his duty and door kicking gun, and mine (being my only gun) was carry nightstand and competition.

I HATE cleaning my guns, and go AT LEAST 2k between wipe downs. Derek tuned mine to run short (factory) or long (1.200") stuff and malfunctions are so rare they're like bigfoot sightings. I remember one back in September before Nats that had me befuddled for a sec until I racked the round and discovered the crushed case mouth from the reloading bench. Yes, that was four months ago.

I'm a big wuss, but were I forced to pick up a pistol to head out to a gun fight I'd take either of my MC2 S_I limited blasters and KNOW I had as good a gun as anything out there.

There was an article in of all places Handgunner, a few yearsback where some REAL dagger in the teeth type remarked something to the effect of "Wait, this thing holds 20 rounds of .40, shoots 2" @ 50y and goes 2k+ between cleaning or malfunctions??? I WANT ONE OF THESE!!!!"

Yeah we make 'em too tight, and spring em' too light, but they run and are tack drivers baby!!!

Edited February 5, 2007 by dirtypool40

[meh92]

FranDoc,

Was that instructor Lynn Freshley? I have trained with him in the past and he is definitely one tuned up officer. Lynn is also a good friend of a fellow officer who speaks very highly of him and says he's a big STI fan. He immediately comes to mind the way you explained it.

I'm not adverse to a Para Ordinance. My hands are fairly large so the extra grip width doesn't bother me at all. As far as making a "tight" gun, I'd be alright with it if it ran well. Accuracy is always a good thing, but never at the cost of reliability. If you can have both with the STI platform then alright.

Thanks everyone. Keep it coming.

[uscbigdawg]

For performance standards how about .5" at 50 yards from a .38 Super that holds 28+1? Gotta love Rusty Kidd.

Tight guns don't necessarily equal reduced reliability. Still gotta be built right whatever the tolerances.

Rich

[Anthony Lombardo]

With the current mags I don't think they are viable for general issue, but I carry my EGW built SVI often in 9x23.

18rds of fury

[FranDoc]

FranDoc,

Was that instructor Lynn Freshley? I have trained with him in the past and he is definitely one tuned up officer. Lynn is also a good friend of a fellow officer who speaks very highly of him and says he's a big STI fan. He immediately comes to mind the way you explained it.

Please see PM.

[meh92]

From my internet lurking/browsing, magazines are a major concern. At nearly $100 each for a "tuned" version, it's hard to imagine beating them up on our range's cement floor. It's just one more factor to consider.

Of course, there's always Para Ordinance. Their guns and magazines are considerably more affordable. Are they in the same category performance and reliability-wise with STI's?

[38superman]

If I was headed for combat and all my guns were laid out on a table, the one I'd reach for is my SVI 40.

No question about it.

It is 2 1/2 years old and has close to 15,000 rounds through it without a single malfunction.

It has run in matches over 100 degs, pouring rain, freezing cold and just keeps going like the Energizer bunny.

When it comes to attitude adjustment, 20 rounds of 40 S&W is a lot of firepower.

I also own a 45 double stack STI Edge which would also be a good choice but has not been as reliable as the .40

The big 45 round just doesn't seem to feed as smoothly from a double stack as the 40.

Just my .02

Tony

Edited February 5, 2007 by tlshores

[Pdoyle]

I have been carrying a SV short dustcover with X200 sight for duty (gang unit) and SWAT. I have also used it to teach probaly 50 classes in last couple of years. No problems at all. I work in very unforgiving environment. Very cold winters, and 110 -115 degrees in summer, however 50 -60 mph winds are the norm in spring and summer, in Southern NM. To combat theese issues I had the gun hardchromed....best damn thing since sliced bread. I can load up 20 plus 1, with two spare mags in blade tech open top pouches. We have well over 70 officers out of 200 carrying 1911 of some sort. we have maybe 10 carrying STI or SV variants. The huge contingency carry Para of some sort. The P-16 in 40 caliber seems to be the fav tho. Again they look just like a Limited gun (hell I found most of them for them on this website or USPSA). We have a great chief who told us as instrucotrs, "Your in the know, so go" Very Nice.

I use this gun in competition on weekends and go 10-8 all week with it. Now like anything in cop work...it is a little ugly now...Scott Grip is about non existant, few scratces here and there...But runs like a dream with long and standard ammo. Duty ammo is Golden Saber 180 grainers, and shoots very flat.

Only downside is that I have to justify it to the other cops that I work around and teach to. they say it is not "fair", when we have departmental shootoffs, and during the state LEO shootoff match. Ohh well. I think that is the LEO world you will start to see more and more use of these types of handguns with all the modifications impelemted in IPSC. Just go to the SHOT Show and the resemblence is unmistakable. If you hae any questions about our policy or training, just give me a PM. We also just ordered like 25 JP rifles for the SWAT Team for entry as well....the unfairness just keep coming and coming I guess..........

By the way...THANKS for the sweet gun Dirtypool...and Derek at Mellinium Custom...Simply flawless.

Pat