Draw Questions Etc.

[Putty]

Been practicing in the freaking Idaho cold (has not got over 24 deg. in 3.5 weeks) all by my lonesome <sniff>.....cept for the bobcat i saw.

My draws to A zone hit at 13 yds. is around 1.22. Practicing for the steel tourney next weekend. Is this getting there in terms of time?

Also, I noticed draws were faster and easier in terms of feel when I brought the gun up closer to my chest, then met it with the left hand as opposed to around the belly/waist area...is this right?

And......do the same rules apply in a uspsa match as they do in a steel match (belt inside loops etc.).

3 degrees tonight.......YEAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

[Joe4d]

whatever feels right and is safe, dont sweep your weak hand with the muzzle. I think the draw speed is over rated. With some basic instruction and a little practice 1.22 isnt that dificult to obtain. But the fastest I have personally seen from someone who can hit everytime is a .87 so with years of daily practice lets say you can get down to .87. Gee you have just saved yourself .35 of a second on a stage that may go 20-30 seconds. There are other areas to work on making up speed. But to answer you question the method I use (Fist Fire) gun clears holster barrel rotates to target gun moves across stomach meets left hand under right eye about bottom of sternum.

[Steve Moneypenny]

wow man feel sorry for that weather

That's a good time if it's solid...and utterly repeatable.

what kind of rig you using? (holster and gun and holster position)

I actually meet my gun just at my nipple line with my other hand. sometiems my weak hand starts ab out belly button just don't sweep your hand. This allows me to present the gun strait at the target and much less vertical motion.. and i can see the sights a little sooner or the presentation to the target.

Yes rules apply must be through your belt loops ( but you can use an inner/outter belt system with just the inner belt through the loops outter then velcros to it)

[EricW]

Anders,

Stop worrying about your draw. Your mission is to make sure you don't miss a target. Maintain your current draw and don't miss and you'll be right in there with Bill.

And I concur with meeting your gun with your weak hand higher on your chest.

Try not to over practice for the match. You'll do fine.

E

[AlamoShooter]

For Steel the draw is a big deal five draws on every stage ...only four count for score with the worst run thrown out. Regular steel challenge that is = five targets.

I have shot steel for a ...few years and I would personaly be happy with 1.22 for first hit on a 12" target at 12 yards, even if it is 70deg.

It all has to do with the target size and distance, on Smoke & hope with a 18"x24" target at 7 yards 1.2 is not so good , but not that bad. IF you HIT the target, and IF you hit the second target after a fast first.

I can get under 1 on my first hit, but for some reason the second target get hits 0.05 slower say a .29 transition so my total time to for first two targets is 1.29, Now if I hit the first target in 1.05 and my second target in .24 my total is 1.29 the same.

I think it has to do with set-up = that little extra at the start helps out with the remaining targets on better transition times.

Oh and give up some time on your first shot for a NPA index on the most dificult shot/ target. winde up into the first target = Its all about the time to the stop plate.

[Putty]

I have the CR speed setup. I am just diggin getting out there and workin on stuff. I figure if I overdoe it, then no biggie....I still learn...something? hehe.

The left hand higher seems to be working better and I want to speed up the draw in steel, because in the past I lost so much time on the draw, no matter how fast I ran the plates, I was dropping big time overall.

Do most of you work in close on the plates then move outward in terms of distance?

Thanks for your help.

[EricW]

Alamo,

I only posted what I did because I know who Anders will be shooting against. Yes, the other guys are going to be running .9 to 1 draws. But one miss negates the draw difference. It's totally possible to be a contender at that match against the local talent pool with a 1.22 draw.

Everything you said is correct. But Anders has the power to be a contender if he relaxes, does the fundamentals well, and doesn't freak himself out next weekend. I've seen him shoot.

E

[Loves2Shoot]

Anders has the power to be a contender if he relaxes, does the fundamentals well, and doesn't freak himself out next weekend.

Yep. Don't think, just do. Keep your shoulders out of the way buddy and stay cool, watch the sights and follow through.

[uscbigdawg]

Sandoz,

Like others have said, while a 1.22 draw is not "ideal" at a steel match (especially if it's in a Steel Challenge format with 20+ draws) if you're getting the first shot off and hitting the target that is exponentially more important. The reality is that you can reduce more time in transitions than you can in split times. As long as you're doing this, a 1.22 draw is no big deal.

Rich

[Flexmoney]

Also, I noticed draws were faster and easier in terms of feel when I brought the gun up closer to my chest, then met it with the left hand as opposed to around the belly/waist area...is this right?

What you are likely seeing there is that bringing the gun up...then pressing out lets you get on your sights sooner. And, perhaps you are a bit more stable at the end of the draw stroke (gun isn't slamming to a stop or whipping around).

(check out Moneypenny's post again)

[Steve Moneypenny]

asfor starting with the hand higher I still put my hand about my belly button, keeping it on the right side. ( this was a thing Flexmoney here pointed out) it gives you a little more time to get your hand on the gun. than if you have it waiting up at your chest.

Start close and work out then go back close speeding up a little is what i do. always begin and end each scession with good confidence building drills.

[stockton]

...Gee you have just saved yourself .35 of a second on a stage that may go 20-30 seconds. ...

Yes, saving .35 in a 25 second, 150 point USPSA stage only saves you around 1.4%. But if its for a steel match where he'll shoot 4 strings (lowest of 5 thrown out) times five stages, he'll save 7 seconds on a roughly 100 second match. That's A LOT.

Different games, slightly different strategies. USPSA is won in the movement or lack thereof to be more precise. Steel is won by getting on the gun and being confident in each sight picture so you can never really stop transitioning. In steel, if you wait for the buzzer to end or the steel to clang, you've lost.

As far as if a 1.22 is quick enough, it sounds like you are getting there, but there might still be room for improvement. Something I've been trying to get better at is going at the START of the buzzer. If you're the most of us, your reaction time is going to be .12 to .20 seconds. If you wait until the end of the buzzer to react, you won't even be going for the gun until somewhere between .42 and .50.

As far as where the hands meet...clap. That tells you where you are used to having them meet since you've learned to clap. Why break 20+ years of training?

Edited February 6, 2007 by stockton

[EricW]

If you don't feed the trolls, they will go away.

[Putty]

Great advice from all.

I hit it every day and my times went back up I noticed the gun was pretty low riding so moved it up the pole to have less distance between hand and grip....times went to 1.11.

I really strive to listen and react to the beginning of the beep yet I think that may take some practice as well....to be instantly reactive.

I am a wait to hear the clang kind of visceral shooter.....better call them shots and move on.

I was trying a smooth dance from target to target, never stopping at each plate ..just moving through it to the next. Is this a viable strategy? Takes a little timing but may save time overall???

[Jake Di Vita]

Joe4d.

Yeah you save .35 seconds on a stage that may go 20 seconds. But look at it this way....35 seconds times 36 stages at the world shoot equals 12.6 seconds. That could be as much as 100 match point depending on the hit factors of the stages...which is many positions in the final standings. Is a draw the most important thing in USPSA? Most certainly no...but it is much more important than you make it out to be.

[EricW]

I was trying a smooth dance from target to target, never stopping at each plate ..just moving through it to the next. Is this a viable strategy? Takes a little timing but may save time overall???

Viable on S&H, but probably a losing strategy overall. I highly recommend finding a plate and shooting it. Then finding the next plate....and so on. Simple and reliable.

[Putty]

Just had another live fire practice. Felt like I wasted 300 rounds. I should no when to stop and call it a day. Draws to 10 yds. 1 frickin five point five....."Miss, miss miss miss hit" ARRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

[EricW]

Anders,

Accept the fact that you're not going to reinvent your draw in a week. Well...make that three days now. Just relax and focus on having a clean, smooth match. Everyone else will try to race and beat themselves in the process.

E

[Matt Griffin]

All I can say is fast to the gun, slow to the grip, fast to the present, slow to the shot. If you're missing, then one of two things is happening. You're either getting a lousy grip, or you're breaking the shot while the gun is still settling. You CAN NOT compromise the quality of your grip for speed. A slow draw costs you .4 of second per stage, a bad grip costs you .1 + likelihood of a miss on every shot you fire.

I was watching Max Michel on the 3GM video last night, and his movement from the grip to the present is blinding fast. But once his gun is up and extending towards the target, it's as slow and casual as anything.

H.