Hypersonic Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 (edited) Hi Guys, new to the forum and looking to get into the sport. I want to buy a limited gun. Right now I am liking what I see in the CZ 75 TS in 40 S&W. I know an STI is the best but money is an issue and the CZ is half the price and from what I read real close in performance. I would put on an Aluminum magwell, slim grips, FO front sight and adjustable rear sight if I bought the CZ. Do you guys think that would be a good setup or should I be looking at something different? I hate double action triggers and from what I read the trigger on the CZ is great right out of the box, so that is one reason I am looking at it instead of the Glock. Oh ya, some have said that the grip on the CZ is really big but I have XXL hands anyway and with the slim aluminum grips I don't think that will be an issue. How is recoil on the CZ compared to an STI? Would the CZ be more reliable than an STI? I would definately like to hear some oppinions. Thanks Guys! Edited January 1, 2007 by Hypersonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 I would buy a used STI in your situation. There have been some screaming deals both here and on the USPSA forum. With the STI you have almost unlimited options for parts and accessories, holsters, and magazines. Getting things for the CZ amounts to picking from the only item or two available for it and that might be a hinderance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Abrahams Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 hey welcome to the forum! there are a few guys at out local club that shoot CZs in production class (9mm). they do great with them, i dont think i have ever seen them jam and it looks like they shoot very well. i have neve seen the CZ ts so i cant really comment on it, but you tend not to see it very much in the limited class shooters. STI on the other hand is one of the most common guns used in limited class and for very good reason. very accurate gun, with a great single action trigger pull. they are a bit pricey, but for a stock gun in limited class i would not choose anything else. you mentioned that you hate double action pulls, and i dont know what the CZ TS trigger is like, but you wont be disappointed with the STI SA pull. you also mentioned that money is an issue. one thing i would recommend is dont overlook the used gun market. STIs show up here in the classifieds every now and then, and alot of them have had some custom tuning done. since i have not seen the CZ TS in person i cant tell you about the reliability of the STI vs. the CZ TS. as far as recoil goes, i know the STI (if set up properly) can be very low. my brother shoots an STI 40 SW which is very soft shooting, feels like a 9mm to me. well thats my two cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 If money is no object go S_I by all means. I might suggest working up to it. The CZ is a fine gun. I have not seen one out there however, the TS that is. Lots of people shoot production or single stack first. Far to many BIG DOLLAR rigs show up on USPSA classified. They just lost interest. It happens. If I were to start all over, I'd shoot a Glock 35 in production and Limited 10. And if my interest grew I would use a built up G35 and play in Limited. I'm doing that now by the way. But, like I said. if you can throw thousands at it, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 The Tanfoglio/EAA is another option, very similar layout to the CZ. Cost is under a grand (new)... They are a little scarce at the moment but it's another option to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Welcome to the forums Hyper! I would buy a used STI in your situation. There have been some screaming deals both here and on the USPSA forum. With the STI you have almost unlimited options for parts and accessories, holsters, and magazines. Getting things for the CZ amounts to picking from the only item or two available for it and that might be a hinderance. I agree with HSMITH. Happy New Year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 +1 to that. If you can find a used STI that's only a few 100 $$ more than a new CZ, it's probably worth the extra bucks. STI&SV are so versatile in the parts and the grip options. You can make the gun weigh 32 oz or 45 oz, you can make the gun point almost as high as a Glock or point as low as a Beretta, you can make the grips fatter than a Para or as skinny as a single-stack. Front-heavy, back-heavy, top-heavy, bottom-heavy, whatever you want. If you mess up the grip real bad you can just buy another for 75-100 bucks like-new condition, easy to find on the forums. And it will fit every good holster out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypersonic Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Where is the best place to look to find a used STI? Can someone post a link to the USPSA forum. I can't find it. Also how reliable are the STI's and how expensive are parts compared to other pistols? Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) i was in a Budget when i started shooting again i bought a new CZ ipsc from gunbroker for $895 with 4 mags after that i bought fiber front, alum grips and magwell for $185..after that i got some basepads for $120 total....$1200...it is extremely reliable has all the extra parts just in case some minor parts break , its just a little heavy but i find it easy to play with and best of all its all brand new!!!...i just like new stuff i guess But if you have the Bucks to spend, a used S_I is the best to go...look at the USPSA classifieds for a deal..just be careful you dont inherit any headaches from the Pistol you buy.. ask who Built it and if there are any problems with the gun... im just saving again for a Open Blaster but will probably buy a New Limited S_I again ... Goodluck in your choice... Edited January 2, 2007 by ogiebb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Abrahams Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Where is the best place to look to find a used STI? Can someone post a link to the USPSA forum. I can't find it.Also how reliable are the STI's and how expensive are parts compared to other pistols? Thanks for the help. the classifieds are in the members area on the uspsa website. once you sign up with uspsa you will get a username and password, which will allow access to the classifieds. P.S. Dawson precision has a pretty good price on a new STI EDGE, excellent gun for limited division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypersonic Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Ya I was looking at that Dawson STI. Will a stock STI EDGE suit my needs or do I need to go for the Dawson tuned EDGE for $2K? Should I look at a gun from Bennie or is a Dawson fine? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Abrahams Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) Ya I was looking at that Dawson STI. Will a stock STI EDGE suit my needs or do I need to go for the Dawson tuned EDGE for $2K? Should I look at a gun from Bennie or is a Dawson fine?Thanks. trust me, a Dawson gun is MUCH more than fine. Dawson, Bennie or any of the big name custom builders you will encounter on this forum will build some of the best guns you will ever shoot. a stock Edge will most likely not be a limiting factor as STI makes some great guns, but if you can afford it i would get the Dawson tuned Edge. there has been some feedback from people who have purchased the tuned package, i think it has all been positive feedback. here is the link Dawson tuned edge Edited January 2, 2007 by W.Abrahams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 If you buy a stock Edge from Bennie, Brazos, Dawson, Shooter's Connection etc... they all have a policy of checking the gun out before they ship it to your FFL. This is a good thing, as (as much as it pains me to say this) sometimes $1500 pistols don't run from the factory. STI has a good reputation for fixing mistakes but I wouldn't want the hassle. The typical upgrade packages include chroming, a fiber front sight, and a bigger mag button. Sometimes a better magwell is added too. Those are all nice features to have but personal preference plays a part. .40 caliber is generally what everyone runs. Be sure and look into magazine costs and understand that to get perfect running 20 round mags it's often necessary to have the mags gunsmith tuned before they'll work at that capacity. Usually the mags will run with stock part for 17 rounds with no problems. Beven Grams sells pre-tuned mags for $145, perhaps 2 of these and 3 more standard 17 round mags would be a good starting kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Benny will build you a full on CUSTOM gun for not much more than an Edge from Dawson or Brazos. It will have almost all of the small parts upgraded, a better barrel, much better fit overall, hard chrome, and built to suit. It boggles my mind that the Edge sells as well as it does considering what you can get for another couple hundred bucks and a few weeks waiting time....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Oh, last thought too, if you buy the Edge from Brazos they may be willing to sell you 4 tuned (20 round) magazines for $450 (vs. $500 sticker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypersonic Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 So how are they getting 20 rounds in these? Are they using 140mm mags and +2 base plates? Is that legal length for limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 To get 20 rounds in the mag, the magazine must have the right internal and external dimensions. I've never read any account from the popular sources of tuned magazine that gets into the nitty-gritty of how this is done. So the next paragraph is a guess: If the magazine tube is too compressed, you'd press it onto the right die to expand it. If the tube is too bloated, you'd compress it in a vise and then use the die to expand it to the right size. The feed lips need to be set to the correct dimensions, usually .385-.395 for .40 cal. At that point the aftermarket parts shouldn't require any tweaking. Grams and Dawson make the most popular components. The follower offers +1 round and the basepads offer +2 or +3 depending on the fit of the components. It's not common to get +3 out of a 140mm legal basepad, that would allow 21 rounds in a magazine and be quite popular if there was a definite way to reliably get this capacity. The last little element regarding mags is whether it can be "reloaded with 20 rounds" or whether the mag will only hold 20 rounds when slowly and deliberately placed in the gun. The difference is the amount of extra room in the mag with all 20 rounds in it. Tuned mags that are "reloadable" have enough extra room for the mag to be inserted in the gun under stress or while moving without it popping back out of the magwell by accident. The "non-reloadable" mags are too tight with 20 rounds to stay in the gun unless you slow down and make sure you've driven the mag far and slow enough up into the gun so that it won't pop back out. It's a lot to figure out and it's a product of the effort to squeeze every little bit of performance and capacity out of mass produced product. I'm not making excuses, it's just "the way it is". SV tubes seem to be better dimensionally that STI tubes so they may not need to be tweaked. SV tubes are often not in stock so STI may be your only option. The last option is SPS tubes but they haven't really shaken all of the manufacturing issues out yet so hold off on these until dirtypool40 says they're ready for primetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypersonic Posted January 3, 2007 Author Share Posted January 3, 2007 So if I buy just the STI tubes, what basepad, spring and follower would I want to go with for high capacity yet be reliable? I can't afford professionally tweeked mags so I would have to do them myself even if that means giving up an extra round. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 So if I buy just the STI tubes, what basepad, spring and follower would I want to go with for high capacity yet be reliable? I can't afford professionally tweeked mags so I would have to do them myself even if that means giving up an extra round.Thanks. I have S_I and I have glocks. Unless you have deep pockets, start for low $$$. There is a complete limited glock setup for sale on the classifieds and it appears to be a good deal. You get everything you need for 1/3 of getting into limited with an S_I. Glocks rock and so do S_I. The great thing is, you can probably sell it for what you paid if you decide you want to go the BIG $$$ S_I route. You shoot more with less! JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 So if I buy just the STI tubes, what basepad, spring and follower would I want to go with for high capacity yet be reliable? I can't afford professionally tweeked mags so I would have to do them myself even if that means giving up an extra round.Thanks. Grams 4mm basepads and Grams follower and spring are one of the standard combos for Limited shooters. The other combo is Dawson basepads, which I think is undergoing a hardware revision right now and isn't available, and a Grams follower and spring. I don't know if the Dawson follower is commonly used or not, but Dawson's doesn't make junk so I'd guess they're decent. The difference is the Grams basepad has a little extra room but they occasionally crack (Grams offers a warranty) whereas the Dawson pads are aluminum. You could consider just running stock 140mm STI or SV mags as well. The aftermarket guts can be picked up later when you have some extra cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 So how are they getting 20 rounds in these? Are they using 140mm mags and +2 base plates? Is that legal length for limited? I get 20 in my SV mags with: ISMI standard springs SV red comp followers Grams bases I went through quite a bit of pain getting these right back in 01 when I bought the blaster. It has been a great setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I bought 4 tuned magazines with my gun from Benny, he charged me about $10 each more than the sum of the parts if I bought the parts on the open market. Those magazines have run and run and run and run. It will cost almost $100 each to put the mags together with the 'hot' parts. Personally I run almost all 19 round magazines, Dawson Competition followers, ISMI springs and Dawson pads. Just about as foolproof as it gets, and I want 110% reliability over anything else. I have tried just about everything else out there and I think I have the most reliable setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 i was running dawson tuned mags ,grams guts and dawson +1 basepad and i got 21+1 on my last S_I limited gun....it was awesome!!!! the 21st round was hard as hell to put it but it works......after 3 matches i noticed a Crack on my grip and gave up the 21 rnd episode : ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Personally I run almost all 19 round magazines, Dawson Competition followers, ISMI springs and Dawson pads. thats funny because thats the exact setup I'm running. When I made the switch from L10 to Limited (and BTW, I went with a STI Edge purchased from Dawson), I asked TDean how to build magazines. He told me that Benny recommends Dawson followers and ISMI springs (and of course I love the design of the Dawson basepad so I had to use that)....and thats what I did. I've got 3 flawless magazines (19 rounds) and am building another 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hypersonic, I'm just getting back into USPSA/IPSC for real after a long time away from the sport (like a match or two a year for the last twelve years!) and just ordered a Dawson Supertuned Edge that should be here by the end of the week. The dealer it's going to has a range on site and I've got mags and ammo ready to try it out a couple of minutes after I finish the paperwork. I'll let you know how it goes. For reference, I also got some of my 140mm mags tuned by Dave (added the Dawson +1 basepads on all of them) to see if there's much difference. I didn't have them change the springs or followers so the capacity on both tuned and stock mags are the same...they all hold 18, but no more. I'll probably order some different springs and followers to try and get that extra one or two rounds, but I'm not worried that will be a limiting factor for a while. One comment for you on the idea of going with something like a Glock to get started. You may have heard of this and it's not to contradict what anyone else has said, so take it for what it's worth. BTW, I don't consider myself an expert, but have personal experience with this one. If you haven't shot a Glock in .40 much you'll want to shoot one for an extended session or two before buying one (like several hundred rounds at least). Many people, I'm one of them, get pounded terribly on the right hand middle finger second knuckle (for a righty) from the bottom of the trigger guard. I also get something similar on the inside of my right thumb where it meets the backstrap. After a couple hundred rounds it really starts to hurt and it's not that a .40 has a ton of recoil...it's a fit issue. When I was going through the academy I actually had the skin tear on my thumb and had to tape up both that and my middle finger for every firearms session after the third or fourth one. It can really be a distraction when you're worried about bleeding every time you shoot...lol. I think some companies will reshape the trigger guard in the proper place to cure this, but it's one more thing to have to get done. Trust me, I'm not bagging on Glocks....I own four and carry one (sometimes two;-) every day. Either way, good luck and I'll let you know how the new Edge shoots....hopefully soon as I'm going nuts waiting (ordered too close to Christmas)! Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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