Opinions On Kimber Procarry Hdii 38 Super?

[elenius]

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/compa.../procarryhd.php

Ok, so she likes the feel of 1911s, but not the recoil of 45s. There are not that many non-45 1911s on the CA approved list, but this one is. I'm thinking she can shoot it in Single Stack (minor). This would be great a she wouldn't have as much of a disadvantage as shooting L10 in minor. Also, she likes the shorties better than the 5" guns.

I would add a magwell (is this allowed in SS?) and maybe change the front sight to FO, but otherwise leave it as it is. As for ammo, I'm thinking of buying a couple 1000 cheap American Ammo 38 supers from sportsman's guide, and then reloading using that brass. (I refuse to buy brass for $70/1000!).

Anyone have any thought or experiences of this gun?

[kmca]

I would look at a 9mm. I actually like the recoil of a 45, it sort of "pushes". The 38 super is a little "snappier". The 9mm is a pussycat

BTW, where are you getting 38 super brass for $70/1000?

[jasmap]

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/custom/stainless.php

What about this Kimber? She can have a full-size frame with it, smaller than .45 bullet, and it comes in either .40 or there's a similar 38 super.

[Nik Habicht]

I'm still sorry I sold this Kimber a few years ago to finance my first AR......

If I was going to carry a 1911, this would be the gun....

[elenius]

I would look at a 9mm. I actually like the recoil of a 45, it sort of "pushes". The 38 super is a little "snappier". The 9mm is a pussycat

BTW, where are you getting 38 super brass for $70/1000?

Well, I meant she didn't like the *amount* of recoil of a 45 S'pose I could load really light ones, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having such a big bulky cartridge.

I don't like what I'm hearing about the reliability of 9mm and 40 1911s, and anyway, very few of them are available here in CA.

[Flexmoney]

elenius,

You come up with a lot of stuff that would seem pretty logical, and may be. But, many of us here have been through exactly what you are looking at.

One thing I've noticed about newer shooters is that they want as many rounds in the gun as they can get...to get through the shooting. With an 8 round gun, the shooter will have to go one for one a lot of times (unless the shooter is coming from a bullseye-style background this can overly tough and frustrating). With 10 rounds, or more, they have a few extra rounds many (most) of the time.

I started out buying American Ammunition when I first got into this game. I had the same idea, that I would shoot the cheap ammo then reload the brass. The ammo ran fine in my Glock, but the brass didn't run well in my reloader. I don't know if this is the same stuff, but over the years we have had post after post of people cussing the "A-merc" brass. It's usually not something even worth struggling thru. Most just trash it (even us cheap guys). If you are going to shoot Super, then you will end up buying brass. I don't know anybody that doesn't.

Often, women tend to think a smaller gun is better for them. If it's a matter of holding the weight up, then they might be right. But, added weight in the gun really does help to dampen the recoil.

She'll need something that fits the surface grip of her hand and allows her to pull the trigger straight back. The length of the frame really does help in this regard (it does drop some weight).

I am guessing she liked the 1911 because the stock trigger felt pretty decent and the single stack grip didn't feel too big?

[elenius]

...

I started out buying American Ammunition when I first got into this game. I had the same idea, that I would shoot the cheap ammo then reload the brass. The ammo ran fine in my Glock, but the brass didn't run well in my reloader. I don't know if this is the same stuff, but over the years we have had post after post of people cussing the "A-merc" brass. It's usually not something even worth struggling thru. Most just trash it (even us cheap guys). If you are going to shoot Super, then you will end up buying brass. I don't know anybody that doesn't.

Actually, a glock 22 is what I reload for right now, and I did the A-merc thing with that. I haven't discovered any problems with them yet. I've reloaded them up to 5 times I think. But I hear you about the super, and looking at the price of brass, it seems to be even more expensive than I thought.

Often, women tend to think a smaller gun is better for them. If it's a matter of holding the weight up, then they might be right. But, added weight in the gun really does help to dampen the recoil.

I think holding the gun up is a big issue for her, and this is with my glock 22! She likes the smaller grips of 1911s, but I think a 4" M&P in 9mm or 40 (with Heinie night sights) may be the ticket. We'll rent one for her to try. I know *I* love them. Wish I'd known about them before I bought my glock.

She'll need something that fits the surface grip of her hand and allows her to pull the trigger straight back. The length of the frame really does help in this regard (it does drop some weight).

Hmm, are you saying the shorter 1911s have smaller frames than the full size ones? I'm not really clear on this.

I am guessing she liked the 1911 because the stock trigger felt pretty decent and the single stack grip didn't feel too big?

Yep. She does appreciate my kitchen table glock trigger job though, so I don't think she's that picky with the trigger.

[AikiDale]

Try the .45 she liked the feel of with one of the lighter rounds, like Federal's 185 grain personal defense round. My girl friend now owns my Kimber Ultra Elite after trying these. She also found the 230 grain .45 a bit much but was very happy with the 185.

[Flexmoney]

She'll need something that fits the surface grip of her hand and allows her to pull the trigger straight back. The length of the frame really does help in this regard (it does drop some weight).

Hmm, are you saying the shorter 1911s have smaller frames than the full size ones? I'm not really clear on this.

I think the one you linked us to did:

"Compact Stainless II has a shorter frame yet retains 7-round magazine capacity. "

I think that is an aluminum framed gun as well. Being of lighter material, many suggest them for carrying a lot, but maybe not so much for shooting a lot.

If you end up renting the M&P, make sure to have them put in the different grip inserts.

[elenius]

She'll need something that fits the surface grip of her hand and allows her to pull the trigger straight back. The length of the frame really does help in this regard (it does drop some weight).

Hmm, are you saying the shorter 1911s have smaller frames than the full size ones? I'm not really clear on this.

I think the one you linked us to did:

"Compact Stainless II has a shorter frame yet retains 7-round magazine capacity. "

I think that is an aluminum framed gun as well. Being of lighter material, many suggest them for carrying a lot, but maybe not so much for shooting a lot.

If you end up renting the M&P, make sure to have them put in the different grip inserts.

The one I linked to is stainless steel, not aluminum. Hmm, I didn't notice that about the frame. Maybe they mean the grip is shorter, *vertically*? That would make sense given the comment about retaining mag capacity. Why would someone think a *horizintally* shorter frame reduce mag capacity?

Good point about the grip inserts on the M&P.

[Flexmoney]

It looks like you are right about that frame. Further down in your link is mentions the frame is stainless (after talking about the aluminum frame in the highlighted bullets). Odd, that the "Stainless Pro Carry II" has an aluminum frame and this one has the stainless frame...if I am reading their info correctly.

I'm not a 1911 buff (many more around here that could speak to this better). Kimber, Springfield, Colt, etc all seem to use different names for similar features/models of gun configuration. Three of the basic configuration options are the full-sized frame and slide/barrel, the shorter slide/barrel, and the chopped (off the bottom of the grip) frame.

A lot of folks say that...the further you get away from the full-sized government model...the hard it is to get the gun to run. I don't know how much truth there is to that ?

[shred]

Pretty much for most people, one gun doesn't do well for both carry and competition.. Yeah, there are wierdos that carry Glock 35's (Hi Duane) and full-size 1911's, but without that level of commitment, pick which way you want to go at first, and then think about optimizing later on for the other.

[Genghis]

DO NOT plan on reloading the American Ammo (A-MERC) brass. I tried that about a year ago when I got my first Open gun, and had all kinds of velocity variation. OAL was varying hugely, and I kept tinkering with the 550 to try to fix it (adjusting the seating, crimping, etc.). Finally I noticed that the bullets were very loose in the cartridges, to the point where you could often pull the bullet with thumb and forefinger. This brass is not reloadable.

[superdude]

i would also warn folks to think twice about reloading American Ammunition (A-merc) 38 Super brass. the upper portion of the brass is very thin. after sizing, and before belling the mouth, a bullet will drop right in. the bullet does stop at a certain point where presumably the brass gets thicker. this could be a genuine problem when reloading since you might not get a good crimp on the bullet. why is the upper 1/4 inch of the brass so thin? i pulled 2 bullets and measured them. they were waaaay oversized. one measured .361 and the other .359 in diameter. these are plated bullets and presumably have a relatively soft lead core. anyway, the brass might provide loading problems. personally, i'm going to toss them out.

you can get more information about factory 38 Super factory ammo at www.38super.net on the factory ammunition page:

http://www.38super.net/Pages/Factory2.html

hope this helps

Edited December 22, 2006 by superdude

[Flexmoney]

[drift alert]

Dude, that website is Super. (sorry, couldn't help myself) :)

Is that your site? I'll likely point people toward it when they ask "what pressure looks like".

[superdude]

yes it is. thanks for the kind remark.

i intend the site to be a data base for useful information about the 38 Super, and actually much of the information will apply to many cartridges in general, the pressure issue is an example.

thanks

[Revopop]

I thought my girlfriend was going to like a 9mm Kimber, and she did, but once she gripped a Hi-Power the search was over. The one she has is the base model MKIII with the thumbrest grips.

browning

It's a nice slim grip and points naturally like a 1911, but balances better for her small hands and it's not quite as heavy as a 1911. Plus it's in 9mm which is cheaper and easier to find. Her dad's a gun dealer, so he got her a brand new one, but used ones are plentiful too, and they can be as customized or not as you want them to be. It's also a higher capacity (I guess it doesn't matter much in CA) and if you have holsters for a 1911 already (like I do) they'll probably fit.