Goodbye 1911s

[Lee Bell]

I love my Glock and my 1911s - kind of like blondes and brunettes.

I hate Glocks so much that I traded the one I had in on another 1911. The trigger on my Glock ate my finger after only a few dozen rounds. There's no way it was as effective, for me, as the triggers on any of my single action guns. Then again, my Glock didn't cost as much as any of my single action guns.

I really don't understand the attraction of a Glock. OK, so they'll shoot even if you don't clean them. OK, so they aren't real particular about what you feed them. The same is true of a host of other guns, many that people here, including me, wouldn't be caught with in their gun safe. I don't care what the hype says, a Glock is a double action only handgun. If I wanted a double action only handgun, I would have stuck with my old hammerless revolvers.

So, put me on the list of those interested in the 1911s in your safe too. I like the way they fit my hand, I like the way they work, and I like the way they shoot. From a defense perspective, if I can't kill it with 9 rounds, an additional 20 or so isn't likely to make much difference. From a competition standpoint, well, I'm just thankful for Single Stack and Limited 10. From a cost standpoint, well, I wish I liked Glocks better. I could buy two for the cost of my most recent 1911 acquisition.

Lee

[Middle Man]

Supposedly Glock is coming out with a slimmer G21 soon.

I handled the G21 SF at SHOT. It is enough slimmer than the standard G21 to tell, but not enough smaller to be comfortable at MY hand size. Caveat: The G21 will take G21SF magazines but not vice versa; the "Slim Frame" has its own mags and magazine well, just a little narrower.

No such caveat, the Glock 21 and 21SF take the SAME magazine. There is not a specific magazine for the 21 slim frame. We have many hundreds of the new 21SF pistols on order, there is no part number for a corresponding magazine other than Glock part number MF21113 for a 13rd 14 ACP magazine (same as the fat 21).

The only variation for a large frame 45 magazine is the blocked ten rounder MF10021.

[Jim Watson]

Well that is good news. Shows how much you can depend on Internet Wisdom.

[Joe D]

MM, has my sample G21SF come in yet?

[Middle Man]

MM, has my sample G21SF come in yet?

We're still waiting...at least Glock didn't show a product that wouldn't be available until 2008 like another factory has...

Don't you already have one of those dandy G21's with a grip reduction and a beavertail?

Edited January 22, 2007 by Middle Man

[Nemo]

<gasping for air>

Heard somebody's giving away 1911/2011 because he likes Glocks better, and I got here as soon as I could. Where's the free pistolas?

[Middle Man]

I handled the G21 SF at SHOT. It is enough slimmer than the standard G21 to tell, but not enough smaller to be comfortable at MY hand size. Caveat: The G21 will take G21SF magazines but not vice versa; the "Slim Frame" has its own mags and magazine well, just a little narrower.

No such caveat, the Glock 21 and 21SF take the SAME magazine. There is not a specific magazine for the 21 slim frame. We have many hundreds of the new 21SF pistols on order, there is no part number for a corresponding magazine other than Glock part number MF21113 for a 13rd 14 ACP magazine (same as the fat 21).

The only variation for a large frame 45 magazine is the blocked ten rounder MF10021.

Well I hate it when someone doesn't give me the whole story.

So I spoke with a friend at Glock today and the whole story on the G21 mags is thus:

There was an inline change on the SKU MF21113/MF10021 several months ago whereby a square hole was cut (center front) in the plastic magazine body to accommodate the ambi mag release feature of the G21SF. I suppose that you could term them a new "generation" of G21 mags that work in both the 45 acp grip frames.

SO if you have a standard fat 21 that you purchased a year ago the magazine will not work in a new slim 21 (without modification to hold the mag catch). However, if you have purchased a new fat 21 (or new spare mag) since, say October, it will have the square cut in the center front of the magazine body and will interchange.

Summary: same dimension 45 acp magazines for both pistols, newest version comes with cuts so as to function in both size frames, and older 45 mags would need to be modified to lock in a G21SF.

Jim it seems we were both told a half of what actually happened.

[Jim Watson]

Seems to be the case.

I can only add, that if the G21 SF is NOT enough smaller in the butt to call for its own magazine, it isn't enough smaller in the butt for me to be interested. I can feel a difference side-by-side but it is not enough to make it manageable.

Gaston thinks he knows better, but I bet a lot of Americans would buy a full size single stack .45, even if it didn't hold but eight rounds.

Edited January 24, 2007 by Jim Watson

[JTR]

Just started shooting my G34 in production and I’ve got a small pile of other Glocks. Just me, but I absolutely love em.

Very disappointed in the company though. ZERO innovation or creative thinking. The biggest (and only) thing they can come out with a slim frame and ambi mag release. People have been modding the large Glock frame for years and the mag release isn’t rocket science and isn’t needed (my left handed opinion).

There are so many other things they could/should do that would require very little if any effort, but would at least have them up to par with the rest of the industry. I’m sure everybody has some good ideas, but a few of mine are:

Slim line (G36T) full-size, single stack 45ACP. They already have the G36, give it some vitamins, grow it a bit. They have the single stack magazine figured out, why not.

Practical/Tactical (G34/G35) length 10mm and 45ACP. Just for kicks and giggles I was calling them the G40 and G41.

The Glock Pro! They already make em for crying out loud. Sell em in Finland as G17 Pro, G19 Pro and G21 Pro. Different cool looking mag release, but also with a threaded barrel like SIG and HK already have.

Seems so simple. Listen to the guys buying the guns, make something new (not just the 45GAP) and they will buy it. I would for sure.

[Joe D]

I have already given most of them away. One guy really liked the 2011 I built. The .40 Kimber CST went pretty quick also.

So far the prototype G36 Tactical that Glock sent me is running well.

The G21 with the grip reduction and BT was a gun Southpaw gave me to shoot. My bud Scott wound up buying it.

Lee, you have not felt one of my Glock triggers. Is 1 lb light enough? How about a 3 lb. that is as short and crisp as a 1911 trigger - well almost.

Edited January 24, 2007 by Joe D

[glock_556]

Glocks Rock

That is all

[Jasonub]

I almost bought one till i saw 4 different people with broken breechfaces from excessive dri firing. but in fairness, glock replaced them and we advised them not to drifire without a snap cap.

Ill stick with my 4,000 dollar svi 1911

[Joe D]

Let's put that into perspective. In 1969 I paid less than that for a brand new Z28 Camaro.

[AustinMike]

I almost bought one till i saw 4 different people with broken breechfaces from excessive dri firing.

How can you break a breechface by dryfiring?

[Lee Bell]

Lee, you have not felt one of my Glock triggers. Is 1 lb light enough? How about a 3 lb. that is as short and crisp as a 1911 trigger - well almost.

Obviously I haven't, but the pull weight is not my primary issue. My problem is that the trigger safety wears on the bottom of my trigger finger. A couple dozen rounds out of my Glock 23 was enough that I would put the gun away to shoot another day. I wound up putting a Bandaid on my finger to let me shoot the gun long enough to get good with it.

At the recent Miami gun show, I handled several Glocks displayed for sale. Perhaps it was just my gun, but their triggers felt better than mine. It's hard to be sure without firing more than one Glock, but it may just have been my gun, or it might just be me. I'll never know because I no longer own that gun. I traded it on the Kimber .40 Stainless Gold Match II I'm still waiting for.

It took me a long time to learn how much I like the 1911 configuration. I can truthfully say that my participation in both Bullseye and action shooting sports is directly related to my enjoyment of shooting 1911 guns, that and the provisional Single Stack division.

Lee

[big_kahuna]

I have been playing around with various 1911/2011 platforms for the last year. I have done a good bit of comparison testing also. Bottom line - I shoot Glocks better than I do 1911/2011 guns. The 1911/2011 guns have become "safe queens". OTOH I may just sell them all.

Some folks point out that 1911 triggers are better. Well I am not so sure. I have 20 oz. triggers in my Glocks. They feed everything I throw at them. You can't wear them out. We have 2 G34s, G35s and a lone G17. All group under 1 1/2" at 25 yds with the stock barrels.

I predict that while my buddy CY has ventured out into the XD/M&P world he will return to the Glock fold.

Come on Glock bring out that single stack .45ACP. I need a CDP gun.

My recent experience is similar to Joe D's. My son and I have been shoting L-10, switching off with my G35 and my first-generation Kimber Stainless. We've also practiced with ParaJoe's G22 and G17. Bottom line is that we both shoot/handle/reload the Glocks better than the 1911. Not exactly sure why, but the timer and scores don't lie.

I'm strongly considering getting the boy his own G22. It would be a nice birthday present for him (he'll be 15 soon). And... I'd really like to get my G35 back full time

[glockrocker]

Very disappointed in the company though. ZERO innovation or creative thinking.

The innovation and creative thinking came at the inception.

"Glock Perfection" If it aint broke don't fix it.

Glocks Rock

That is all

+1

Somehow I agree.

[Flexmoney]

The innovation and creative thinking came at the inception.

Sadly, I appears to have stopped there. Perhaps it's a business decision to keep going with what they have until something/body cuts into their market share. I think that is bad business...it leaves the door open for the competition. And, we are starting to see the competition addressing some issues (grip, slide bite/beavertail, ambi controls, etc.). Guns like the M&P, once past any teething problems, are going to have a chance.

The Glock works great for me...and for most people. I just wonder if they left the door open.

[Joe D]

Flex, it is all about OROOA. The last numbers I saw had Glock with about 80% of the LE market. They have ventured away from that market on occasion - G34/35. Next time I am out with Gaston having a beer I think I am going to bend his ear about a G36 Tactical.

[zhunter]

I must say, the Title of this thread irritates every time I see it!!!

Does anyone else feel this way???

[Mike P]

Flex, it is all about OROOA. The last numbers I saw had Glock with about 80% of the LE market. They have ventured away from that market on occasion - G34/35. Next time I am out with Gaston having a beer I think I am going to bend his ear about a G36 Tactical.

Well, if they have 80% of the LE market, maybe thats why we're not seeing any innovation.

Next time you're out for beers with O'l Gaston tell him that there are more shooters with good jobs than there are cops in the U.S. (at least for now)

Mike

[Merlin Orr]

I must say, the Title of this thread irritates every time I see it!!!

Does anyone else feel this way???

Hehe... Are you saying you just hate long goodbyes?

[zhunter]

I must say, the Title of this thread irritates every time I see it!!!

Does anyone else feel this way???

Hehe... Are you saying you just hate long goodbyes?

Short and sweet would be better.

I think this thread could be closed and deleted.

Let's have the name dropping and beer drinking take place on a, "Hey I am buddies with the guru of plastic."

[Joe D]

You are just jealous. Some of us have come to the realization that a STI Edge is not worth 3 Glock 35s.

Edited January 29, 2007 by Joe D

[zhunter]

You are just jealous. Some of us have come to the realization that a STI Edge is not worth 3 Glock 35s.

"Worth" is what someone is willing to pay. So, I guess that there are plenty that ARE willing.

Edited to add so it does not seem malicious:

Luckily for all of us in our sport, our equipment is like a commodity, it retains a lot of value.

Edited January 29, 2007 by zhunter