Hammer Drop In A Sti

[Ameiza]

I have had several trigger jobs done to my STI Edge .40 the last four months with a reputable smith here in Norway. Every time it has come back, I've experienced hammer follow.

Here the story; when I first bought the gun (slightly used), the trigger pull worked well, but was on the heavy side. I sent it to the smith for a trigger job. He lightened the pull, but told me that someone (previous owner) had tampered with the original STI hammer (removed the half cock notch), hence the possibility for full auto.

And of course it happened. I sent it back and told him to change the parts. He replaced the hammer and sear with SVI parts, telling me they are the best. The gun still won't work properly. Now the hammer drops to half cock. I sent it back again, and he changed the parts yet another time, still using SVI. He also changed the disconnector and did some minor adjustments on the safety. Sadly, this had no effect but to cause doubles (full auto).

He now thinks it must be the way I shoot, alleging that I cramp my trigger finger, causing the double shot. I've been shooting 1911's for 10 years without such problems, and I also have a SPS open gun, not having the same problems with it.

Here's my questions:

could my smith be right?

Has anybody else experienced problems with SVI trigger parts in STI guns? ( I know of several other Norwegian shooter who have had the same problems with SVI-->STI using the same smith)

I'm considering to order an Extreme Engineering drop in kit and replace the hole group again. Any thoughts on that?

ps! sorry for the long post. Just wanted to get the details right...

[Joe D]

I think you need another gunsmith or learn to do it yourself. One question - you are not asking for a 1 lb. trigger are you? I think the key words here are "using the same smith".

1911 trigger jobs are really easy to do. Just learn to do it yourself. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/N...p;t=1&i=545

You don't need expensive tool to do it. The Ed Brown sear jig works fine.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Joe D

[Ameiza]

One question - you are not asking for a 1 lb. trigger are you? I think the key words here are "using the same smith".

First, my trigger pulls have always been in the range 2.2-2.4 lbs, and that shouldn't be any problems for a good smith.

Second, I've been using this particular smith for 10 years, and I've been satisfied until now. It's just that he is very fond of SVI parts for the moment, and I have a suspicion that this may be the issue. As I said, I've heard of several STI shooters complaining about their SVI trigger groups. The SVI shooters seems to be ok with the trigger jobs done by the same smith. After all he is the most reputable 1911 smith in my country.

I just wonder if there is anybody else who has experienced the same thing?

[Joe D]

Whether the parts are STI/SVI/Novak/Wilson has nothing to do with a proper trigger job. There are many sear/hammer check fixtures available. Buy one and check the hammer/sear fit yourself. It would appear that I live a few miles from you so that makes it a little difficult to figure out your problem.

I would suspect not enough sear engagement, hammer hooks too short, hooks not square, sear not square, not enough tension on left finger of leaf spring just to name a few.

Look at Illustration 3 and Figure 9.

Reputations come and go.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Joe D

[PaulW]

How much take-up do you have in the trigger?

[Joe D]

Paul gives you another good one to check.

[L9X25]

1911 trigger parts are designed to a specific dimension to work with practically any 1911 pattern gun. The reason your smith may have chosen SV parts is becuase they usually require the least amount of fitting (or no fitting) to provide a light pull. However, they still need to be tuned for any pistol that has "out of spec" pin locations. If you have such a gun, it can still have good trigger jobs, the smith simply has to modify the parts slightly to fit your gun perfectly. I have seen several of these guns (and own one) and they will always need customized parts to have a good and reliable pull, drop in parts will never work with them (unless they are out of spec too).

You smith either does not know how to modify the parts for your specific pistol, or has become too lazy to do so. As others have stated, find another smith or find another pistol.

[old john]

Look to see if the sv trigger has slack @ the shoe ( it will move slightly). The trigger should be removed to see this since it is ever so slight! I had the same problem once and it was the bow didn't have a tight fit with the shoe. It can be broken loose when the tab is bent forward as a stop. Old john

[BSeevers]

I know you probably don't have a lot of choices but you need a new smith. All the above is true except what your smith is saying. I can shoot a 1911 upside down with 2 pinkies or in a vice and it will not follow, ever, with a proper trigger job. My Open has a real 1 3/4 lb. My Limited is 2 lbs. On a side note I have seen a bad part or funky holes cause problems. You either fit to the "funky" or get a new part.

Find a stock Colt or Kimber and see if you can reproduce your cramped finger follow. You can't but you probably already know that.

[00bullitt]

I've got an STI frame that gave me fits. I had to change the angle of the sear to engage the hammer hooks square given the hole locations that were slightly off by like .008". External pins and a 10x jewelers loop can identify this. I like one of the Marvel jigs the best. I have a Power Custom 1,and a Yavapai jig as well but like the versatility and ease of setup on the marvel jig. the Yavapai magnifier jig is cool to check engagement when the pin holes are to spec. Also make sure that the hammer and trigger pins fit the frame and holes of the components tightly with no slop. Oversize pins and a reamer may be necessary. If you are using an Infinity trigger....they sometimes need modification to allow full sear engagement. I'm pretty sure thats what Paul is asking. Material may need to be removed from the rear of the sear legs for full engagement. Dykem or sharpie ink on the sear face can identify this. Assemble the gun and dry fire 10 times and tear down to check engagement.

Several factors can influence what you are experience. What I have listed are what I have personally dealt with on my guns and the solutions I used for reliable trigger work.

[Ameiza]

Thanks for all the replies! Lots of things to try and experiment with. There are a couple of smiths who deserve a chance, and I'll try to get hold of a jig myself. Is there any american webshops other than Brownells that stock such tools? Brownells won't ship abroad. I should probably get a good book as well. Or study the approach in link above.

I've had the EE trigger group in another STI (open) gun I had earlier, and it worked flawlessly. I might order one for my Edge.

@ Paul W: The pre-travel was adjusted to be a bit longer to prevent any cramping effects. But as I said, I don't have this problem in my SPS open gun, so it should be possible to set up the Edge to work as well.

@ old john: I have an original STI trigger, not SV.

again, Thanks!

[adiksaputok]

PM sent

[bountyhunter]

1911 trigger parts are designed to a specific dimension to work with practically any 1911 pattern gun. The reason your smith may have chosen SV parts is becuase they usually require the least amount of fitting (or no fitting) to provide a light pull. However, they still need to be tuned for any pistol that has "out of spec" pin locations. If you have such a gun, it can still have good trigger jobs, the smith simply has to modify the parts slightly to fit your gun perfectly. I have seen several of these guns (and own one) and they will always need customized parts to have a good and reliable pull, drop in parts will never work with them (unless they are out of spec too).

You smith either does not know how to modify the parts for your specific pistol, or has become too lazy to do so. As others have stated, find another smith or find another pistol.

Or he's using a standard jig which will only give good results with a standard dimension frame.

I also suspect your frame's boss pin's are a bit off and he is dropping in "standard cut" pieces and is not smart enough to know better.

[Mick]

You didn't mention your skill level. I know shooters of various skill levels who can either pull the trigger too fast or jerk in the middle of the cycle and cause either a double or hammer follow. I have a Benny Hill job with EE that has been flawless for a couple years and thousands of rounds. I can't get it to follow. I have and STI with EE that follows all the time especially when I get in a hurry or am cold. I just put SV parts in it and it's better! I have an SV with EE parts that will go for months without a problem and then follow at a match or in bill drills...Gun or me???? The parts look good and I use a 35 oz trigger on all the guns...

Mick

A27257

[Ameiza]

You didn't mention your skill level. I know shooters of various skill levels who can either pull the trigger too fast or jerk in the middle of the cycle and cause either a double or hammer follow.

I don't shoot classifiers too often, so I don't know for sure. I recon I'll quallify as an A shooter. I have one presidents medal, and have won countless level II matches, both in open and standard division.

I'm not saying that it is impossible that it's my fault, that I'm not cramping my finger. But I don't get doubles or hammer drops in my open gun, so it should be possible to get my standard gun to work as well.

Thanks!