Bug-s&w Snub The Only Way To Go?

[Fuzly]

I am pretty new to IDPA. I know the club I've been going to has an occasional BUG match and would like to participate.

I have located a S&W Airweight .38 snub for a good price and am thinking about getting it. It would be for matches and fun, since I won't be getting a CCW license anytime soon (I hope no Wisconsin shooters voted for Gov. Doyle).

So is this the way to go? Maybe I should get a steel frame model since it will strictly be a match gun.

Also, I would appreciate feedback from anybody who uses something other than a snub for BUG. Do you use something else and why?

Thanks for the help.

[Jim Watson]

What is your main match gun?

I'd shoot something of the same action type, just smaller. For example, I have a Colt Gov't Model .380 that works just like my 1911.

I think a G26 is an acceptable BUG, if you shoot a bigger Glock.

[gringop]

If you are not going to carry it, get a steel frame. I have a 642 airweight and a 640 steel and the steel is definately easier to shot. It will last longer, too.

Thanks, Mark

[Hank Ellis]

Well maybe. I don't shoot IDPA but I do practice frequently with my carry gun.

My carry gun is a S&W 642 Airweight. Just for grins I shot Winchester 158gr LSWCHP +P across the chrono to see what it would do. Averaged PF of 130 with the lowest at 127. It HURT. That fire spewing round through that lightweight gun was just too painful to do on a voluntary basis.

I've also ran the Winchester white box 150gr LRN through the same gun. Results were 102pf. Haven't had a chance to chrono it yet but the Speer 135gr JHP designed for short barreled revolvers is listed at 860fps for a 116pf. It's a bit stiff but not near as bad as the FBI load.

Assuming that the PF floor for the BUG Division is the same as the revolver division then you are stuck using the FBI load. Bring Band-Aids.

Now if there is no limitation on PF then you can game it with light reloads. A 125gr LRN with Trail Boss makes for some soft shooting. Since the minimum caliber is .32 and factory ammo PF at 64 then coming up with a .38spl reload at 80 or 90pf isn't gaming it too bad. There's some factory ammo that comes close to 90pf. Win 130 JRN comes to mind.

What does your club say about ammo restrictions for BUG matches? Sounds interesting. I may want to play.

[kdmoore]

Depends on what you want. I think the suggestion on the G-26 gets you the most competitive bug, we have a guy that was shooting it as he made master .... so of course he ruled the day on the Bug matches too.

Colt .380 does great. I've shot my keltec's as that's what I carry as a bug, but sometimes the MD will throw in a head shot with distance and those so called "sights" really leave a lot to faith!!!!

I love shooting my colt .380 gov't size, just cuz i like the little gun. As you aren't carrying, I'd suggest using a bug gun that you just like if this is for fun, and if you are shooting to win, get one of the larger autos (I don't know what fits as I haven't checked, but G26, p99 compact, XD compact, 1911 in "small" all come to mind.)

[revchuck]

Fuzly - Get something that mimics your main gun.

No PF requirements, just .32 caliber or larger. The only thing I have left that would work for BUG is a 2" M10. Not a bad deal.

[BBunin]

Unless you're shooting a double action revolver as your main gun, I'd side with everyone else here and suggest some sort of auto, similar to your primary.

The XD 9mm SubCompact might be a good choice.

[Fuzly]

I'm happy I asked.

It sure makes a lot of sense to use something that mimics the big gun. I'm currently shooting my Beretta, so a smaller Beretta may be in my future. I handled one of the single stack .380s a few years ago (Model 85 I think) and I liked it. Nice and flat, and IIRC all the controls were in the same place.

I read about the five shot strings in the rules, so that is why I thought the Smith snubbies were the ticket. I have not fired one of the airweights, but I didn't think it would be something I would want to do a lot of. I did try one of the titanium ones at the Ducks Unlimited Festival a few years ago, and it was NOT fun.

I may still get the S&W because of the good deal, and I've never felt I have too many guns in the safe. Also, it sounds like I might be starting a new job in a few months were I could use it as a BUG. So, it was a pretty good day.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Joe D]

I can't tell you how many times I have seen guys buy an Airweight Smith for their wife to have as a carry gun. It is absolutely the worst gun you can buy for your wife/girlfriend/mistress/significant other/hooker. Did I cover everyone?

[Jim Watson]

No.

Add daughter, mother, maiden aunt; non-enthusiast next door neighbor of any gender.

I will have a small statured friend in town for Christmas. She has little firearms experience but is not afraid of anything. I plan to present her on a cold start basis, a couple of different autos and a revolver to shoot at across-the-room ranges.

We will get a handle on the woman who is supposedly too weak to rack the slide on an auto once per 8-18 shots but can supposedly haul through a ten pound DA every shot. Not to mention finding out if an MBA really is too stupid to operate all the controls on a pistol designed for deployment with grammar school graduates.

[revchuck]

We will get a handle on the woman who is supposedly too weak to rack the slide on an auto once per 8-18 shots but can supposedly haul through a ten pound DA every shot.

Jim - I have yet to see a stock J frame with a trigger that light.

[Jim Watson]

You've got a point. My 640 has been tuned up a bit, though. I don't have a trigger gauge that will read DAs so I just picked a number out of the air.

[FTDR]

it depends on what you are looking for, if you are trying to win a bug match it may not be the best choice, i look at a bug gun match as an opportunity to see how i would fair with the gun i would carry, a model 640 with full .357 magnum loads, and surprisingly enough i do pretty good, last time i placed 3rd out of 20 with it, of course the so's didn't care for it much

[MichiganShootist]

We run a pretty good sized BUG match at one of the IDPA clubs here in Michigan each year. Shooters are divided by caliber just to give the revolver shooters a chance. (Reloading a J frame with a speed loader is hardly the same as reload with a Glock mini-gun)

This past year the first 16 overall were shooting 9mm, .40, or .45 semi autos. We had a total of 71 shooters and only 7 shot revolvers..... and those folks are regular revolver shooters in either ESR or SSR.

Edited December 19, 2006 by MichiganShootist

[Jane]

We run a pretty good sized BUG match at one of the IDPA clubs here in Michigan each (Reloading a J frame with a speed loader is hardly the same as reload with a Glock mini-gun)

Of course, if you're playing by IDPA BUG rules (current rule book page 26) that's not a factor.

All CoF for the Back-Up Gun Division must be limited to

five (5) rounds maximum per string (no reloads on the clock) to

allow autos and revolver shooters to compete equally.

[MichiganShootist]

The club follows the IDPA rules to the letter. All guns are loaded to the 5 round max.

The point Jane... is that a semi-auto reload is MUCH faster in most peoples hands than a small revolver with a speed loader would ever be.

To equalize that and the recoil diferences between a .40 S & W BUG vs. a .380..... the caliber divisions were put in place.

In reality the IDPA organization has ignored BUG shooting to the point where clubs pretty much do whatever they want.

[Jane]

The club follows the IDPA rules to the letter. All guns are loaded to the 5 round max.

The point Jane... is that a semi-auto reload is MUCH faster in most peoples hands than a small revolver with a speed loader would ever be.

Certainly. I just don't see how that's a factor if you don't do reloads on the clock... as in the text I quoted.

IDPA had optional BUG stages at this year's nationals, so perhaps that will develop more in the future.

[MichiganShootist]

They do stretch the rules to include loads on the clock.

They also use two guns on nearly every stage in the BUG match. Scenarios like---- You shoot three bad guys 2 shots each from the low ready position with your primary gun .... then that gun runs dry (or fails)... you then stow the empty gun on a barrel and proceed with the rest of the stage using your BUG..... all on the clock. Physically it's more like a multi-gun match but the big round count is with the BUG. So you have to shoot the BUG from a draw in all cases.

The BUG "side match" at the nationals was all 5 shot stages.... which are unrealistic at best. (just 5 shot bill drills)

This club's division of the calibers levels the playing field.... and ribbons are awarded for each caliber rather than each division or classification.

Like I said earlier... the national organization hasn't done much with BUGs... and IMHO... that has been a terrible mistake... 'cause regardless of what people shoot in matches... most shooters are more likely to have a BUG "class" of pistol as their primary carry gun..... vs. a 40 ounce CDP gun or a S & W 625.

Edited December 20, 2006 by MichiganShootist

[kdmoore]

They do stretch the rules to include loads on the clock.

This seems to be the understatement of the day :0

Not only has your club added reloads on the clock, but they've added multiple guns, and a draw for your main bug gun (If I read that correctly). Seems like you will be requiring folks to buy a belt holster, as many bugs are carried in the pocket, on the ankle, and who knows where else

I'm not sure why, seems like you are wanting to run full scale stages with smaller guns?

The bug matchs are an interesting diversion, something different to shoot. I don't know that the interest is there to make them into a primary event. I like the fact that nationals highlighted them with a side match, but I don't see them making it onto the main stage. Many bugs are lightweight and may not take the pounding of the practice and competition circuit. I love my keltec's, but I'm not ready to put thousands of rounds thru them. Lot of the lightweight revolvers would have the same problems, and can be pretty hard on the shooter as well.

Having said all that, I do believe that club level matchs is a proper place to start innovation (some comes top down from HQ, other I think can become a hit locally and catch the attention of HQ). If this is what the shooters in your area want, then more power to you! Locally, we had a chance to shoot an extra match, so the MD put out poll wanting to know if we wanted a BUG match or regular match. Regular match won hands down.