38 Super Vs. Supercomp Vs Tj

[Chris Spiess]

Help me out here guys. I am new to open. I just acquired a previously owned and well used open gun. It is setup for 38 Super, but what are the differences between Super, Super Comp and TJ? I've done some searching and found bits and pieces of info, but nothing that gives the definitive differences.

Are the chamber dimensions the same? Can i run SC or TJ in a Super gun by changing the extractor? Would I want to?

TIA

[Flexmoney]

I'm suprised we don't have that one in the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) for this forum.

We've had this same question a number of time. If somebody finds a good thread on it before I do, please post the link here.

[shred]

The info is in these threads, but kinda scattered around.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6935

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24573

[Scout454]

Simply put, 38 Super has a rim. 38 Super Comp and 38TJ are rimless. 38 TJ has a larger extractor grove than 38 Super Comp. With a properly tuned extractor you should be able to run them all. My open gun was built as a 38 Super with a 38 Super AFTEC extractor. It'll run all three - mixed - in the same mag.

FWIW, 38 Lapua is rimless. I've also found that 9x23 Comp, sized in a 38 super die will work just like 38 Super Comp.

If you load on a Dillon, use a 9mm/38 Super shell plate for Super and a 223 shell plate for Super Comp and TJ.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Scout454

[Chris Keen]

Would I want to?

Simply put ............ next question.

[half inch groups]

Do rimless cartridges extract easier than rimmed cartriges? what are the pros and cons of running rimless other than being able to distinguish your brass at the range or match? I have a 1911 steel gun RIID built me and was curious on what your take is on rimless. I noticed he tested the gun w Nosler .38 super. what do you guys think of the stuff? The gun is still at RIID's until I get residency in FL, so If Rimless is the way to go, I guess while its at the shop, it might as well change/tune the extractor for the unique cartridge. is the wall thickness greater w rimless? can you load it hotter? does the rimless brass get any extra mileage out of it? Does the price justify the means? I know.. A lot of questions but if anyone cares to expand on the subject I'm all ears! thanks!

[bpowe]

Extraction between the three is indistinguishable. The rimless varieties simply are smoother feeding from magazines and usually adds one more round to the mags capacity (the super rims take up mag space).

[al503]

is the wall thickness greater w rimless?

Yes. Here's what I've found out:

1. Starline 38 supercomp and AP rimless both need about .2 grains less (compared to Starline 38 super) to make the same pf.

2. Hornady TJ, and Lapua both need ~.2 grains less the the Supercomp/AP Rimless to make the same pf.

I've never used the Starline TJ so no experience there.

does the rimless brass get any extra mileage out of it?

The hornady and lapua brass that I've been using seem pretty indestructible. I think 20 reloads are not out of the question. (I'm keeping count on a batch to find out but it'll be a while.) I'd say I'd get about half of that out of the Starline SC and maybe a third of that out of the AP. If you have a reliable way of getting most of your brass back, it's worth it for the hornady and lapua. If you don't, save your $ and go with the AP. It's the cheapest of the bunch and you can reload it 6-8 times before the the primer pockets start loosening up.

Hope this helps.

[half inch groups]

Yes that does! thank you 2!

is the wall thickness greater w rimless?

Yes. Here's what I've found out:

1. Starline 38 supercomp and AP rimless both need about .2 grains less (compared to Starline 38 super) to make the same pf.

2. Hornady TJ, and Lapua both need ~.2 grains less the the Supercomp/AP Rimless to make the same pf.

I've never used the Starline TJ so no experience there.

does the rimless brass get any extra mileage out of it?

The hornady and lapua brass that I've been using seem pretty indestructible. I think 20 reloads are not out of the question. (I'm keeping count on a batch to find out but it'll be a while.) I'd say I'd get about half of that out of the Starline SC and maybe a third of that out of the AP. If you have a reliable way of getting most of your brass back, it's worth it for the hornady and lapua. If you don't, save your $ and go with the AP. It's the cheapest of the bunch and you can reload it 6-8 times before the the primer pockets start loosening up.

Hope this helps.

[Chris Keen]

(the super rims take up mag space).

Seriously ???

[Scott G]

AP = Armscor??

[al503]

AP = Armscor??

yup.

[Garrett]

(the super rims take up mag space).

Seriously ???

Yeah, I can get 29 Supercomps in my tuned big stick, and only 28 Supers (not a "reloadable" 29, though).

My gun runs great with Supers, but chokes sometimes on SC (extractor is set up for traditional Super). I keep thinking about getting a different extractor and switching to SC when I run out of brass... but who knows.

As others have stated, SC feeds better out of a magazine. Set up correctly, Super runs just fine, but you just have to be a little more careful. There was a bit of a learning curve when I went from shooting .40 in Limited (rimless) to the semi-rimmed Super. Now that I've learned my gun's quirks, it runs great. Can't remember the last malfunction I had.