Glock 35 Right For Me?

[RangerE32]

Thought some of you with more experience than myself with Glocks could give me some insight. I recently purchased a Glock 35 .40 cal. to use as an IPSC Limited gun (I am new to IPSC), with the intention of eventually doing a few modifications. I had been using my Sig 226 9mm for Production and even Limited, but I wanted to move up to Major with a .40. Most of my experience in handgunning is with the 226/228/229. I chose a Glock for this move due to the reliability of the platform and because I could build up a gun that would allow me to be competitive with the high-cap 1911s, without "breaking the bank". However, after shooting several hundred rounds through a stock Glock 35, I am apprehensive about building it up, and think I may have to try something else.

I am very inconsistent with this gun at this point. I have noticed that I tend to shoot high and to the right of the bullseye, as opposed to low and to the left with everything else I have ever shot, when I miss (generally shooting 7-15 yards). When I speed things up and shoot 2 or 3-shot strings, I am all over the paper. Of course they tend to go low when I jerk the trigger, but I have had complete misses as well. I use a 50-yard bullseye target printed on 8x11 paper (small, but should not miss this at close range). I thought there was something wrong with the gun, the sights, or both...but maybe it is just me.

When I really slow things down with my shooting, I am capable of shooting with accuracy (ex. 5 shots in 1-1.5"). However, I still tend to shoot to the right of the bullseye. I am using a white dot front and an adjustable "goalpost" rear sight (stock Glock). I feel like I have to really "bury" the dot into the bottom of the goal post and even hold the muzzle slightly lower than I am used to (3-dot sights normally).

I don't know if anything here has to do with the grip angle of the Glock (which is new to me). I was thinking that changing the sights and maybe dropping in a tungsten guide rod might help me. However, since I plan on installing Dawson Precision fiber optic sights, this would be an expensive investment, especially if it doesn't improve my shooting and the Glock proves to be the wrong gun for me.

Any advice? Thanks.

[sfinney]

Glocks are ......different. They are capable of excellent accuracy, and in the right hands, very competitive. However, it been my experience, that they have a much steeper learning curve due to the trigger (especially if you are used to a 1911 type break, like the Sig is in single action).

I'd wager most of what you are experiencing is trigger control related.

My 2 cents of advice - Either:

1) Get a drop in trigger job like the Vanek or Sotello, put on the sights of your choosing, DRY FIRE (alot) and then go shoot a couple thousand rounds through it. That will probably cure 80 to 90% of what you are experiencing. If its still not fitting you by then, then you are like me, you just don't "speak Glock"

2) Or get a 1911 based Limited gun and "cheat" with a nice single action trigger and grip angle more like you are used to.

Both are good platforms, but for some people, one just requires alot more practice and trigger control. But its definitely learnable, just takes work.

Edited November 4, 2006 by sfinney

[clown]

i shoot a glock 34 and will shoot high due to the grip angle if i am not totally focused on rolling my wrist. other opinions may vary.

[BR]

SFinney is spot on. Glocks are different, y yo hablo glock. My $.02:

a. First, change the sights to sevigny, heinie or dawson. Stock = bad.

b. Add some trugrip tape.

These are bare minimums for any glock. Next:

c. Consider changing the trigger to Sotelo/Vanek. I use Ralph's, and it's cheaper than Vanek's if this turns out not to be the limited gun for you. I do not use the lighter striker spring, but do use a lightened striker. I like that combo better. In .40, 15 lb. recoil spring over steel or tungsten.

The foregoing additions really help, and for the investment -- c.$150 -- makes the gun a much better shooter.

d. Buy/load a case of ammo and spend some practice sessions working just on the trigger - feeling the release and reset. The trigger is the biggest problem for most shooters, but can easily be learned. After a couple thousand rounds, you will know whether you and glock are compatible.

e. If incompatible, glock will be easy to sell, and you could try the Witness limited gun, a para or used STI.

Let us know how it works out. Cheers,

-br

Clown makes a good point - make sure your grip is correct!

-br

Edited November 4, 2006 by joker22

[get2now]

I'd suggest you let someone else shoot it and see if they have the same problem.

I had a G17 that gave me accuracy problems. I ended up changing to a cheap after market barrel which fixed it.

Good luck,

G

[RangerE32]

Thank you for the advice. I guess I am being swayed to stick it out. Was thinking about selling the 35 with a gun show in town this weekend. I do believe I can learn the Glock, given time. And I do like the 1911 platform. However I have 2 concerns:

1. Economics- I wanted to move up to major and I don't reload...yet. I saw other IPSC guys in my area using the 35 with success, for a lot of the same reasons as me. It was an economical platform to build up and be competitive with in Limited for IPSC newbs like me, without going to the 1911 and spending over $1000 (at least at first). .40 cal was the cheapest way to make Major at this point. I probably should stick to Sig, but it seems I am limited to 14 rounds in an X-5, at a signifigantly higher price.

2. "Unlearning" what I already know- Perhaps more important here, I am concerned with changing my shooting style in order to perform with the Glock. I carry Sigs for a living on a daily basis and am concerned about switching back and forth between styles/techniques. Any of you guys switch back and forth with success?

Just laying it all out there. BTW, what are drop-in triggers running right now?

[Harmon]

i shoot a glock 34 and will shoot high due to the grip angle if i am not totally focused on rolling my wrist. other opinions may vary.

if you AIM that wont happen.

Harmon

[hanexp]

I am new this year to practical shooting competition so pls take this for what it is worth...Most of my trigger time is with a P226. I have practiced group shooting quite alot with that gun to gain some measure of confidence on long distance targets. Have spent quite a bit of time learning the Sig trigger. My tendeny is to shoot left with the sig. Last summer I attended the local GSSF match. At the match I borrowed a G17. My prior experience with the Glock was during the stage of my development when I was trying to decide what first gun to purchase. I rejected Glock and selected Sig because I shot the Glock very poorly, didnt like the feel of the gun and because the Sig at first was more accurate for me than the Glock and other handguns. Anyway, without any prior experience with the G17 at the match, and without any practice prior to shooting the match, I indeed shot the G17 very well. I shot three other Glocks during the course of the weekend and finaly against my own Sig. With the Sig i still tended to group left and dead on with the Glock (at this point a G35).

It was as though all the trigger time with the Sig improved my shooting with the Glock. Since this, I have put in additional tinme with the Glock and, no kidding, my groups with the Sig seem to be tighter and more centered. Comments from people who know how I shoot (poorly) have commented to me support this.

The point of this ramble is, sfinney is dead on correct. Glocks are different. They seem to require a much different kind of trigger control. I imagine it is best to concentrate on one platform, but for me, it seems that practice on one platform has "informed" another. Since stock Glock sights are so universally disparaged, it makes sense to change them. Since stock Glock triggers are so easily improved, upgrading yours makes sense, but the main thing is probably about mastering a trigger that is so different from what you are used to.

Good luck with your journey and thanks for your patience to my reply.

[Loves2Shoot]

I find rolling my shoulders forward fixes the whole grip angle thing... The trigger (even fixed up) is more of an issue for me. I have to be more patient with it.

[clown]

you are hilarious harmon.

[RangerE32]

All recommendations seem to be logical. And thanks for the reply Hanexp...it is always good to hear the experiences from someone that is trying to make the same transition. I did not have a consistent shooter available to try the G35 when I was at the range, to see if the gun was shooting similarly for them. However, I was going back and forth between my Sig and the Glock while at the range, and that may have been screwing me up. But, I was shooting the Sig fairly well (ragged hole).

[big_kahuna]

Stick with it and give the glock a chance. I experienced a similar learning curve, coming from Sigs (220 and 229) and 1911s to the Glock. The three major stumbling blocks I encountered were the grip angle, trigger and sights.

Remedies for cheapskates like me:

Sights: I use a sharpie to blacken out the dot and goal posts on all my guns thus equipped, which forces me to use the rest (edges) of the sights. IMO dots and outlines are major distractions. My G-35 came with a Hi-Viz fiber optic front sight and stock Glock adjustable rears, so I only had to blacken the rear sight. Considering blackening the front sight too, before spending any money on Sevigny or race-cut Heinies. Did I mention I am cheap?

Trigger: I have extensive experience with a DAO Sig, so the learning curve for me was not that bad. I have not yet upgraded to a RS or Vanek trigger, but might consider it in the future. Instead I dry-fire(d) A LOT of my glock and put several thousand rounds downrange. At this point I feel I have become sufficiently accustomed to the stock trigger that I do not feel it is holding me back. We'll see in a few months if I still feel that way.

Grip angle: no cheap fix... so I told myself, "Self, suck it up and get used to it." Again, dry practice and livefire seem to have made the grip angle a non-issue. My grip/stance is continuing to evolve to accomodating the Glock grip angle, and now I am having good results ... ( edited for clarity and to remove extraneous info ). Expiriment a little and you might find something that works for you. One more comment on this: check out Loves2Shoot's website here for some videos on grip. I found those very valuable.

Again, recommend you stick it out and give the Glock a chance. I chose the Glock for the same reasons you mentioned, good bang for buck and it is proven competitive. The flipside is that it requires a little more commitment to practice IMO.

Edited November 4, 2006 by big_kahuna

[b2e]

Before buying a drop in trigger try the " $0.25 trigger job ". It will make a big difference in your stock trigger. You might try gripping the gun hard with your left hand and just use the tip finger on your right hand to pull the trigger. Play with different grip styles. It worked for me. And letting someone that shots a Glock try yours to see if it shoots straight is a great idea. It will keep you from blaming the gun.

[SA Friday]

I carry a Sig P228 (M-11) at work and shoot USPSA with G34,35, and 24. It can be done. I must admit though, the glocks shoot better for me than the Sigs. You never mention what ammo you are using, and if you have tried different types. This might be some of the problem. The factory ammo I have good experience with and positive accuracy was UMC 180 gr, and WWB 180. They are widely available, and fairly inexpensive.

Find one of the Glock shooters in your area that has it together, and pester them until they spend some time at the range with you. The extra perspective will probably figure out where you are losing the accuracy.

[mike4045]

I shot a 35 back when noone shot them. I changed the front sight and shot like that for about a 100k. I took the $200 for the trigger job and bought ammo and went and learned to shoot it. I tried the mods along the way but always went back to the same setup. I would not hesitate to shoot one again, I just prefer shooting open.

I would have to agree with Harmon's comment.

Mike

[glockman30]

If nothing else change the stock sights. The stock sights are very bad sights. Because you want to line the dot up within the notch, but this is very wrong. You must forget about the dot and the notch, and line up the top of the sights and the space inbetween the sights. Try this before you go spend your money on new sights. If this doesn't work for you then maybe the GLOCK isn't for you.

Good Luck,

Kevin

[RangerE32]

I agree with Harmon as well. But those are some screwed up sights (the stock rear goal post). I was using WWB ammo...can't remember if it was 180s or 165s. Maybe I am fooling myself with shooting Limited. I guess I wanted to shoot Limited rather than Production because almost everybody locally at the matches was shooting Limited or Open and I wanted to be able to measure myself against them. It's not as much fun being the only one shooting Production (at least at the few matches I attended). Originally, I got into IPSC/USPSA to get more realistic/stressful situations to train me for daily carry, rather than just standing on the line and shooting at static tagets. Maybe I should get rid of the G35 and take some lessons from Roger Sherman and stick to Production. My big problem with Production is being limited to 10 rounds, which is totally unrealistic to me when I can carry high-cap. LE mags, no matter what state I am in.

[A-shot]

I use a G35 in LTD, it's all good mang. Your reasons for choosing the gun are valid, you need to shoot it for more than several hundred rounds, and experience the gun as a whole on the competitive scale, before you render judgement. Were you making a ragged hole with your SiG under fairly rapid fire conditions? All alphas, 6 shots, 3-4 secs, roughly 8 yards? I'd say use your sig if your were, but man, glocks are so awesome. Again, for the same valid reasons that you stated in your inital post. Feel and use that sweet a$$ sweet trigger reset, it's like that for a reason. Keep your gun and get lessons!!

Edited November 5, 2006 by A-shot

[ihatepickles]

I agree with Harmon as well. But those are some screwed up sights (the stock rear goal post). I was using WWB ammo...can't remember if it was 180s or 165s.

I don't care for the stock Glock sights, but if you need to keep using them for a little while why not use the rear adjustments to zero the gun? If you want some great sights, look into Dawson Precision.

Maybe I am fooling myself with shooting Limited. I guess I wanted to shoot Limited rather than Production because almost everybody locally at the matches was shooting Limited or Open and I wanted to be able to measure myself against them. It's not as much fun being the only one shooting Production (at least at the few matches I attended).

When you receive the match bulletin you'll see that it's easy to compare your shooting to that of other people in other divisions. I understand wanting direct competition though, nothing wrong with that. Pick a division and stick with it.

Originally, I got into IPSC/USPSA to get more realistic/stressful situations to train me for daily carry, rather than just standing on the line and shooting at static tagets. Maybe I should get rid of the G35 and take some lessons from Roger Sherman and stick to Production. My big problem with Production is being limited to 10 rounds, which is totally unrealistic to me when I can carry high-cap. LE mags, no matter what state I am in.

The G35 will work for Limited if you get your mag capacity up to 20 (Dawson Precision basepads will add 5 rounds). The G35 trigger can be brought down to 2 pounds fairly easily. Sights can be replaced as previously mentioned. Add a guiderod for ease of messing with springrates and some TruGrip and you have a good Limited pistol for less than $1000 total.

You mentioned you hoped to get some stress training from USPSA, which is fine but remember it's a game. The 10 round limit in Production is a great challenge and not something to shy away from. If you're hoping to hone your daily carry you'll get a huge confidence boost from the shear number of mag changes required in Production. I'd also like to say USPSA and IDPA don't mimic gunfights very well. At best, shooting sports get you more familiar with your gear.

If you want to shoot Production, the G35 will work OK if you're a reloader. If not, a 9mm would be a better tool for the job.

[eric nielsen]

Two tricks to work around grip angle problems:

If the gun [glock] points too high, try squeezing down the strong-hand pinky finger, a LOT. If that helps you'll need to do 1000s of reps drawing, mag changing, presenting the gun. It's not very natural if you've never done it before.

If the gun [xd, sig] points too low, try keeping your support-arm elbow tucked down with a locked wrist, as usual. Raise the elbow on your strong-side arm, sort of like Sevigny shoots with both of his arms. But just raise the strong arm.

Kindof tough to explain online, but if you break the strong wrist a little and pull up the strong elbow, it brings the whole gun a little closer to your face and raises the muzzle up. You may find that it lets you stand more square to the target. If it helps, same 1000s of reps needed.

Edited November 5, 2006 by eric nielsen

[Smokecloud]

shooting high, could be a result of the crappy stock sights, but could also be a result of a low grip. Glocks liked to be griped high up on the backstrap and as already mentioned, light pressure on the lower part of the front of the grip, this should bring your shots down and improve your consistency.

As far as shooting to the right, I suggest using less trigger finger and really work on pulling straight rearward. If you are already doing these things and still having problems, see aftermarket sights and set zero them for yourself.

Look at the .25 cent trigger job, this will smooth the pull up quite a bit, you can get a spring kit for under $10 from wolf that replaces the safety plunger spring, the striker spring and the trigger reset spring, this along with the .25 cent polishing, will usually yield about 2 1/2 lbs if you have the 3.5lb connector. Its a cheap way to significantly improve the trigger without breaking the bank. If you find that improving the trigger makes you fall in love with your new glock, then you can consider one of the expensive trigger jobs.

I switched to glock from sig a couple of years ago. My sig shot more accurately from a rest (1" @25 yds). My glocks usually shoot around 2.5" @25 from a rest, but when shooting offhand, you usually dont notice that kind of difference. It took me a couple of years to get really comfortable with the glocks, but now that I am proficient with them, I dont long for my sig, it just sits in the safe.

[RangerE32]

WOW! You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the good information. Looks like I need to go down today and pick up another 500-1000 rounds and get shooting that G35. I spoke with a friend of mine last night that is kind of a "Glock nut", who also has a fondness for Sigs. He told me that I have not given the Glock a chance and should change the sights before dismissing it. There is no easy road. I will stick to the Sig for Production and tweak the Glock and see if I can make it eventually work for me as a Limited gun. It sounds "do-able" to shoot both, taking into account the inherent differences between each platform.

As far as USPSA being "realistic", I totally understand what you are saying. I realize that it is a game, but their are elements of the game that can be applied to reality. LE training/qualifying can be a fairly boring and routine exercise in this age of liability. Sometimes I feel like I am just "going through the motions". However the game always changes and is always different, like reality, and that keeps you on your toes. Plus, you have the extra elements of stress due to shooting for time and accuracy in front of a group of people that you don't work with every day.

Those of you that shoot factory ammo and use a tungsten/stainless guide rod....what weight recoil spring are you using? I know it can vary depending on ammo, but I am talking about using typical factory target ammo...ex. WWB. Also, what are your thoughts on adjustable rear sights? Are they worth the expense? I do like the Dawson FO sights that I shot with once, but have never tried a Heinie/Sevigny type setup.

[GunBomB]

Dude, if you shoot uspsa for a year, you'll be more familiar with your gun and a better shooter than anyone else in your LE Dept. Unless they do this too. Think about footwork literally as it appies to an array, and then start seeing some stuff around you in everyday life that applies directly to the same movement and motions. Being timed and getting to shoot freestyle, it is a pure race. Familiarity with your weapon and the ability to use use it safely is crucial, so is speed and accuracy. It can be the best thing you've ever done.

G35 worthwhile mods:

1.Dawson FO front, nice and tall, like a sail.

2.Dawson target adjustable rear, No FO. Better sight tracking, less distractions, and the first time you stick your gun in a dark barrel, you'll REALLY love the FO front.

Sevigny rear sights are awesome, but fixed, so get the perfect front post.

3.Mag well of some kind, the fatter and heavier, the better. If you wanna really get good, then leave it off and practice more.

4.Heavier recoil spring (stock or 15 lbs.) because of wwb. Get 100% reliability. The lighter recoil springs are tailored for custom loads. Lighter springs make the slide move faster, therefore you can shoot faster with lighter loads. Guns jam if the recoil spring isn't right for the load.

[DanM]

Here is mine:

First thing to go was the crap Glock sights. I was shooting alot of Steel at the time and the white sights on white steel sucked.

Next I gave it the tungsten guide rod, magwell, and trigger job. I then bought a 9mm 1911 Springfield and put the Glock away. After a year, I'm finally pulling the Glock out and getting used to it. Even with a trigger job, the trigger still sucks for me. If someone would design a drop in kit that gave a Glock an STI type trigger, I have a feeling they'd be zillionaires I constantly shoot low left with the Glock but I am SLOWLY coming around. If I was going to do it all over again, I'd just replace the sights and spend the money on ammo.

[Matt Griffin]

My .02$:

It has taken me nearly 2000 rounds to really get the hang of my G35, after moving from Berettas. The softness of the recoil, the length of the pull and overtravel, it's a tricky beast to get the hang of. However, I now have no problem riding the trigger reset naturally, and I'm winning most tournaments I enter. Like others said:

sights

trigger

grip tape

magwell

. . . and most folks will argue about the magwell. Heck, Flex will argue about the trigger, and I have to admit that after recently picking up a stock Glock, the trigger feels a lot better to me now that I'm used to the stages of the pull on my 2# trigger. I can certainly see where a 3.5# connector and a polish job is good enough for a lot of people.

H.