Flexmoney Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Reminder of topic: IPSC Standard and USPSA Limited ???, how close are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 (edited) Running a IPSC legal "RaceProduction" gun in USPSA will find you shooting Open in short order. IPSC allows race holsters instead of "real" holsters, as many rounds as the so-called factory stock magazines will hold (instead of the KlintonKontrolled 10, but that is another discussion), and lets factory custom guns compete as long as there is a "-II" after the name USPSA's intent was to avoid raceguns in raceholsters and to keep the caliber playing field level with the 10-round per magazine thing, while IPSC...well, after reading the IPSC Secretary's various posts and emails flip-flopping on the subject, displays no clue whatsoever as to what they want. You can, of course, compete in USPSA Limited with your Standard gear, but the differences are more on USPSA's side and hurt the IPSC competitor who is forced to deal with IPSC's stunted magazines, short barrels, and arbitrary holster position while competing in USPSA's more freestyle Division. You can set up gear that works "both ways", of course, but you would be sub-optimal in both at the same time. But I'm sure you knew that already, Phil Alex Edited October 29, 2006 by Wakal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 (edited) "You can set up gear that works "both ways", of course, but you would be sub-optimal in both at the same time." Really.... My "old" USPSA Limited set-up was built with the "dual purpose" usage in mind. The gun fit in the IPSC box with a factory SV stainless magwell and Bo-Mar sights installed. Barrel was 5.1 inches and the remailner of the gun was as typical as any you'd find in everyday USPSA competition. The only additional purchase was 5 126mm magazines. During the time period I used the above equipment, I competed in 4 IPSC Canada Nationals, 2 Ontario Provincial Championships, and 1 Guelph Invitationals having finished in the top 20 in all 7 matches with top 16 finishes in 5 of the 7 matches. In preparing for the above matches...I used my IPSC legal mags and the subsequent holster/mag pouch positioning during USPSA matches. During this period...I never finished below 2nd in my division during a club match. The only REAL differences between the two divisions are magazine length and holster/mag pouch placement. Edited October 29, 2006 by Chuck D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caps Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Running a IPSC legal "RaceProduction" gun in USPSA will find you shooting Open in short order. How do you figure that? IPSC has stricter rules for production guns so any IPSC production-legal gun can shoot USPSA production, but customized and longer barrel USPSA production guns can't shoot in IPSC production, right? KlintonKontrolled 10 ....... USPSA's intent was to --- keep the caliber playing field level with the 10-round per magazine thing I thought USPSA put in the 10 round limit due to the AWB law. If "keeping the playing field level" was the real reason, why didn't USPSA change Open to Open 10 and help out the guys in CA, HI etc.? while IPSC...well, after reading the IPSC Secretary's various posts and emails flip-flopping on the subject, displays no clue whatsoever as to what they want. Why do you keep dumping on Vince in every post you make? At least at the IPSC forum he posted the intent behind production division but I've yet to see a statement from the USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 First, unless I am mistaken isn;t this thread supposed to be about the diferences and imilarities between IPSC Standard and USPSA Limited? But since it has been brought up... USPSA Production haas a divisoin in which far more guns are competitive due to our 10 round limit. Here a 9mm, a .40 or even a .45 is competitive. IPSC, 9mm only need apply. And who really cares what is posted on the not-so-global-village by someont that apparently has never shot a USPSA match. Jim Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 First, unless I am mistaken isn;t this thread supposed to be about the diferences and imilarities between IPSC Standard and USPSA Limited? But since it has been brought up... USPSA Production haas a divisoin in which far more guns are competitive due to our 10 round limit. Here a 9mm, a .40 or even a .45 is competitive. IPSC, 9mm only need apply. And who really cares what is posted on the not-so-global-village by someont that apparently has never shot a USPSA match. Jim Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTerry Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 First, unless I am mistaken isn;t this thread supposed to be about the diferences and imilarities between IPSC Standard and USPSA Limited?But since it has been brought up... USPSA Production haas a divisoin in which far more guns are competitive due to our 10 round limit. Here a 9mm, a .40 or even a .45 is competitive. IPSC, 9mm only need apply. And who really cares what is posted on the not-so-global-village by someont that apparently has never shot a USPSA match. Jim Jim OK - sticking with just IPSC Standard and USPSA Limited. Back to your earlier statement that " some of your IPSC legal gear won't be acceptable" If I turn up with my IPSC box legal STI, with holster and magazines behind the point of the hip, and using IPSC Standard Power Factor ammunition, what can possibly be unacceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 US Limited Division special conditions 16, 18, 19, do not apply to Standard. For example, an add on thumb rest is legal in Standard, but not in Limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 (edited) I'd be willing to trade special conditions 16,17, and 19, for the box. Those special conditions don't strike me as doing much good. Give us more freedom to modify our guns. They will still look a lot like they do now. From what I've seen, The factories don't seem to be interested in building one of a kind superguns just for sponsored shooters. They want to build guns they can sell. I like the idea of having fewer rules. Edited October 30, 2006 by wide45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 You would be willing, I and many others might not. 170 vs 165 PF We are allowed a 140mm Mag, IPSC no, gun with mag must fit in box Thumb rest, IPSC says Yes, USPSA No Besides, I shoot USPSA Matches. In the US. Maybe Ill head sount one day, maybe north, maybe not. If I Do, I'll address any equipment requirements then. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Once again...this thread is about Limited and Standard. It has nothing to do with Vince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 You can, of course, compete in USPSA Limited with your Standard gear, but the differences are more on USPSA's side and hurt the IPSC competitor who is forced to deal with IPSC's stunted magazines, short barrels, and arbitrary holster position while competing in USPSA's more freestyle Division. How is Limited more freestyle? In Standard you can do anything you want to your gun except have scopes and ports as long the gun it fits the box. In Limited you must use a factory gun with 500 produced. In Canada you see a lot more variety in Standard than what I've seen here in Limited. And who really cares what is posted on the not-so-global-village by someont that apparently has never shot a USPSA match. From what it seems -- a whole lotta people -- who keep quoting stuff posted there over here. I just realized you were banned from the IPSC forum but that doesn't make it any less global - it just makes it more civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 (edited) Limited: Having limitations as to what is allowable. A Limit upon activity. Standard:Normal, Average, Customary. In other words, Limited here is more about the shooting. Standard is essentially an Open gun without a dot or a comp. Then again.... JIm Edited October 30, 2006 by Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 (edited) In other words, Limited here is more about the shooting. Standard is essentially an Open gun without a dot or a comp. Comparing IPSC and USPSA side by side, the only differences I see is that IPSC standard has to fit in a box w/magazine whereas USPSA Limited has a magazine length restriction, and IPSC standard restricts where you put your holster and mag pouches on your belt. ....Oh, and powerfactor, USPSA has it easier there. Beyond that...., well, I've been calling them "limited race guns" for years. Edited October 30, 2006 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Geez, if we just got rid of the divisions and all shot Open, there'd be no arguements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Geez, if we just got rid of the divisions and all shot Open, there'd be no arguements If you have competitors, you will have arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysued Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Why should I have to give up my $140 holster and go buy another $65 holster? Jim I quit using race holsters in 98, when my STI EDGE fell off my Race Holster (Empty, it was at the end of the day) and dinged the living $hit out of my perfectly good gun!! I had to re-finish my gun And back then I also started using the IPSC Holster & Mag pouch position, with a Safariland 561 Holster, so that wouldn't make me or Break me either way. Just for the record...Why do we care?? On or about 1 January 2008 USPSA will have our own rulebook. Here we shot Limited. When we run an IPSC match, we will have to run with IPSC gear, the rest of the time we run USPSA. Similar but different. Jim YUP, back in 98 when we were shooting Area 3 in Rolla, and then we went to Barry to shoot the IPSC North American Championship, we spent several nights tweaking Magwells and basepads on 126mm magazines in order to shoot the match!! We all did it and I eneded loaning out my 126mm mags to a shooter, due to the fact that I shot the match with the RO's and I was done when the Shooters started the Match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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