Total Ipsc Membership

[Jim Norman]

I searched on several different phrases and couldn't fing the answer.

I understand that IPSC does not publish membership numbers, but there must be reasonable worlsd wide estimate of the membership somewhere.

Recently I heard that the number is somewhere in the range of 25,000. That includes the USPSA!

Jim

[lynn jones]

hi jim,

go to additional content, look for classifer by state on the members side of the uspsa website....bam there you are.

lynn

[AikiDale]

"Knowledge is Power"

Aikidale's corollary: Transparency reveals knowledge.

[Wakal]

Lynn, the man said "IPSC" not "USPSA"...

USPSA's numbers are easy to find, and are published everywhere. They don't seem to have anything to hide. Interesting, that.

Alex

Edited August 29, 2006 by Wakal

[lynn jones]

damn... oh well!

[shred]

There were ~850 slots for the World Shoot. They're supposed to allocate them by membership (remember there's a cap on the US and some other regions). The US got ~60 originally. Shouldn't be hard to reverse the math.

[Wakal]

Shred,

Not so...remember, there is a CAP on dues, and World Shoot slots are given to each Region by dues paid...

2,000 members per region is the cap. In other words, a Region of 15,000 members (for example) is only required under IPSC rules to pay dues on 2,000 members.

World Shoot slots are handed out to the Regions based on dues, NOT actual membership.

Since USPSA has 15,000-odd (very odd, in some cases) members, and according to our own Da Prez (as posted in his column a few Front Sights ago) there are about 30,000 ISPC shooters worldwide, that would give the US Region half of the World Shoot slots. With the "cap" system firmly in place, that fair and equitable apportionment system will never happen.

IPSC refuses, period, end of discussion, to release numbers by Region for just that reason. I proposed just dropping the "dues" cap, as it was artificially depriving IPSC of much needed captital, but the high-ranked IPSC muck-a-muck that I was discussing this with fixated on the "half of the WS slots going to the US" (thus, inadvertently proving my point) part, and that was that.

Alex

[Esa1195]

If you want to estimate total IPSC membership, there's "Regional Status" page: http://www.ipsc.org/ranking.htm

My estimate of total membership is somewhere between 45000 .. 50000.

- IPSC Brazil has 5000 members ( e aproximadamente 4995 atletas registrados até a data de hoje. )

- 6 regions have more than 2000 members.

- 6 regions have less than 2000 but more than 1000

WS XIV slots were awarded with rough rate of 3 slots per 100 members ( remember 2k cap for 6 largest regions ) so my guesstimate is 47 206 members

[Wakal]

That doesn't work either...look how many WS slots Vietnam received, and remember that they only have twelve members (total)

Alex

[bgary]

Keep in mind, too, that the number of members a region declares (and pays for) may have no connection to the number they actually have.

A region can "declare" as many members as they want, for whatever reason they choose. All that is required is that they pay IPSC dues for that number. So if, for example, you are a region with 4 members, and you want to have a full vote at the GA (which, if I recall, requires 100 members).... you simply say you have 100 members, pay the appropriate amount of dues, and you're good to go.

B

[Rob Boudrie]

It is not uncommon for gun related organizations to keep membership numbers confidential for political reasons - if you tell the enemy how small your numbers really are, it becomes easier for governments and sports sanctioning bodies to ignore you - or worse yet, listen to Handgun Control, etc. if they claim larger membership numbers.

For example, the Massachsuetts Gun Owners Action League (www.goal.org) has a similar policy decision, and considers their exact member count to be highly confidential. In their case, it's easier to talk about the "hundreds of thousands of MA gun owners" than the "thousands (or whatever, I don't know the number) of GOAL members".

[Jim Norman]

Rob,

Sadly, what you say is all too true. It is one reason that I join several clubs and also several organizations.

The sadder part however is that the secrecy in the actual numbers within our own organiztation leads to a very small group being able to gain controllin interest and enable them to make a lot more noise than their actual numbers would support.

If the nubers put forth above are true, USPSA is 1/3 to 1/2 of the total membership!

If you took into account individuals that shoot but don't belong, I think that the actual proportions would be even greatert in our favor. Remember, here in the US I do not, thankfully have to belong to any organization to shoot. True a few make you join to shot a particular match, but most are open to the public as it were. Not sure if that is a good idea or not. Maybe we'd do better to require membership, but possibly at a lower rate to encourage full participation?

Jim

[BritinUSA]

That doesn't work either...look how many WS slots Vietnam received, and remember that they only have twelve members (total)

Every region gets a minimum of four slots so they can field a team. It's after that allocation that things start getting vague.

[Rob Boudrie]

If the nubers put forth above are true, USPSA is 1/3 to 1/2 of the total membership!

Interestingly enough a certain IPSC faction feels that any change to the voting structure would necessitate payment proprotional to votes, but does not see any problem with the current system under which payment and votes are not proportional.

[38superman]

Why do we need IPSC?

Seems to me that USPSA can stand on its own just fine.

Where's the benefit other than eligible for the world shoot which 99.999% of the membership will never see anyway?

Tls

[Gary Johnson]

Why do we need IPSC?

Seems to me that USPSA can stand on its own just fine.

Where's the benefit other than eligible for the world shoot which 99.999% of the membership will never see anyway?

Tls

A hush fell over the crowd...

[AikiDale]

Why do we need IPSC?

Seems to me that USPSA can stand on its own just fine.

Where's the benefit other than eligible for the world shoot which 99.999% of the membership will never see anyway?

Tls

Well for that matter why do we need USPSA?

Anarchist of the World Unite!

[38superman]

Lighten up rabbit

[Jim Norman]

Although I doubt that it will ever be acknowledged, but in my opinion, IPSC needs us far more than we need them. We can host a World Championship of Practical Shooting here in the US. Any shooter that wants to compete can join USPSA as a foriegn member and compete. We already have 370 people signed fo the US Limited/L1-/Rev Nats. I'd bet we are close on the Open/Prod Nats. If we truly are 35-50% of IPSC, then I think the above would hold true. If on the otherhand we are 10% then a world wide organization is worthwhile. Maybe.

Jim

[kruger]

Why do we need IPSC?

Seems to me that USPSA can stand on its own just fine.

Where's the benefit other than eligible for the world shoot which 99.999% of the membership will never see anyway?

Tls

Well for that matter why do we need USPSA?

Anarchist of the World Unite!

We need USPSA because it provides a uniform base for the range of matches the average member is likely to visit. I suspect that the typical member shoots at several clubs spread across a state with the occasional excursion out of state. I also suspect the number of members that live in the USA that shoot matches outside the USA is relatively small.

In Europe, where the countries are smaller and the ability to travel between them is easier, then an international organization is useful.

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

[Jim Norman]

Someday overlay a map of Europe on the US. It is surprising.

My brother had some relative-in-laws come over from across the big water to visit for a week or two. They figurted they'd see Maine, drive over to Florida and maybe see the Grand Canyon and the Rockies, with a few side trips thrown in, like NYC and maybe Atlantic City and a few other hot spots.. Hey its only an inch on the map!

Needless to say, they saw a lot, but most of it was not on their original itinerary.

[RogerT]

Although I doubt that it will ever be acknowledged, but in my opinion, IPSC needs us far more than we need them. <snip> If we truly are 35-50% of IPSC, then I think the above would hold true. If on the otherhand we are 10% then a world wide organization is worthwhile. Maybe.

Jim

Hi all.

I think Jim's right, why does USPSA belong to IPSC? What's the point?

The whole game was started in the States, the US is the largest region and self-sufficient in every aspect.

The few US shooters travelling to IPSC matches overseas surely could do that anyway, as "guests" or something.

[AikiDale]

USPSA is one region of IPSC. Do we need them to have...anything? No. Do we need McDonalds to have hamburgers? No.

I shoot on occasion at a club that was an IPSC club before the all the politics and splits and divisions. There are two or three stages, round count is pretty low and everyone shoots heads up. They don't mind if you have a double stack, but they think your cheating if it has a maq well. The rule book is about three pages. These guys have 40 to 60 shooters show up every month and have no interest at all in affiliating with any organization.

I like having an international organization and the knowledge that I can travel anywhere in the world and find a match run under the same, or, very similar rules to which I have become acustomed. Just like it is cool to have an Olympics. We can have track meets here just fine without the IOC.

It's not an Us against Them thing. They is Us and so is we.

[Jim Norman]

Just to clear the air a bit. I am not advocating that we disassociate from IPSC. What I want to see is USPSA having the leadership role in the world. In other words, instead of us having a waiver, the rest of IPSC should have the waiver, we are the "Big Dog" I guess the term tail wagging the dog comes to mind when I think of IPSC/USPSA.

Jim

[shred]

I would bet USPSA has about 1/5th of the active IPSC shooters in the world. We've only got 10,000 classified shooters, and even a lot of them might not be actively shooting anymore (click through top-10 M-Open list, for example). My best guess for IPSC worldwide is about 50K, + or - 10K.