thegirl Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I've been experimenting with 9 major loads for a few months (big thanks to everyone who has posted load data here, that has really helped), but it seems no matter what powder I use I still see flattened primers and primer flow. Is that just a way of life for 9 major or do I need to keep looking for another load? I'm attaching a pic of my brass for show and tell. I'm shooting an SV IMM 4.5" scheumann barrel, 3 port titanium comp, no holes in the barrel. So far this is what I've tried, all using 125 gr zero JHPs, mixed brass and WSR primers: 7.4 gr N340 OAL 1.175 - makes about 170 pf, but I had extraction problems - the outside of the cases were marked pretty badly from the chamber. Sandy was able to replace/tune my extractor and it ran flawlessly for the Double Tap Champ. Dot moved in a big circle. 7.8 gr N350 OAL 1.175 - still makes 170 pf, the dot movement was much better (up and to the right, within the glass), didn't have any extraction problems but not sure if this was due to the load or the extractor tuning. 8.0 gr 3N37 OAL 1.170 - 170 pf, haven't really shot enough of them to gauge the dot movement or see if I have extraction problems. The pic is a little blurry, but you can see the flow around the firing pin strike - when I clean the gun I find little flakes of primer on the firing pin/spring, I'm thinking that's not good. So my question is, is this "normal" looking brass for 9 major? Thanks Rhonda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Do you have an extended firing pin ? It's hard to tell from the pictures. If you don't then get one, it will help a lot. If you have one then I am of no use whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 when I clean the gun I find little flakes of primer on the firing pin/spring Get a Dawson or a Limcat XL firing pin. If you have a SV slide, I know that the Dawson will work with the breechface. I don't know if the Limcat will work. That should take care of the primer flow. I like the looks of the edges of the primers. They are still nice and round. I've seen plenty of primers that are a lot flatter than yours. I've used both of the N350 and 3N37 loads that you're using with great results. If the N340 is exerting so much pressure on the case that it's getting stuck, then you have a problem and I would stop using the powder. You only have primer shear, not flattened primers. Pick a load and burn it up! After I unpack all of my reloading stuff, I'll dig up some brass and get a pic of some smashed flat primers. Pressure signs that you DON'T want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 After I unpack all of my reloading stuff, I'll dig up some brass and get a pic of some smashed flat primers. Pressure signs that you DON'T want to see. I've been waiting for a post with pics such as those. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Put a Limcat long firing pin in the SV and shoot away. Changed mine and solved the problem you are having immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 CCI Small Rifle primers help a lot too. Tried every brand & type & those deform the least. Look and see if your hammer stays down [empty gun] and pushes the FP flush with the FP stop. If not, you can put in a longer hammer strut & get rid of a lot of primer flow that way. Amazed that you can make major with an IMM and 9x19. Tell us how it works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Use SR primers always! Get the extended Firing Pin The rounded edges of the primer are a sure sign that the pressures aren't beyond max yet and that the issue here is a soft primer and a too short firing pin allowing flow and shear as the round is extracted. Those are NOT excessive pressure signs, just signs that you need harder primers and a firing pin that plugs the FP breechface hole properly. You are only just starting to heat things up here ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 The dawson Hyperdrive firing pin will fix the primer flow problems, Brad collins was also having stuck case issues with N340 in his gun. the AFTEC extractor should fix the extraction problems. Try 7.0 grain alliant power pistol powder and 124 MGJHP at 1.165 inches it makes 176 pf in my 5 inch 9mm and doesnt show any pressure signs. hope this helps Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegirl Posted May 8, 2006 Author Share Posted May 8, 2006 Thanks everyone for the responses - no, I don't have an extended firing pin. I never would have thought that would fix this problem, but I'll certainly give it a try! I shot the 3N37 loads on Saturday, but I think I like the N350 better - the dot seemed more stable. .40AET, I would love to see pics of truly bad pressure signs so I'll know what to look for next time. I did manage to blow the jacket off of a Zero JHP last week - bullet left the gun, jacket was stuck in the chamber. Pretty sure that's a bad sign. I'll try the firing pin first, then move on to primers and powder combinations if that doesn't work. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 WoW!!!!!!!!!!!! Blew the jacket off??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'd have to chime in... the long firing pin, seems to be the "majic" helper in 9mm major? For what it's worth.... I've found as have others that IMR # 7625 works well. I do load it on my 550 instead of my 650 as it is a compressed load. I was keeping track of the # of reloads (WSR primers, various powders)) possible and 3 x's seems to be the max BEFORE I got some loose primers. (reminds me of the "old" P-9 days and 9 x 21 brass). kind of interesting.... I always come home with more 9mm brass than I left with????, can't say that about 38 Super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 .40AET, I would love to see pics of truly bad pressure signs so I'll know what to look for next time. If you have problems, like you mentioned, the first thing that I would do is look for the brass that the bullet came out of for evaluation. Thanks for the interest in the pressure signs. I moved two weeks ago and just started setting up the new reloading room. Everything is still in boxes. I could work up a load faster than finding the ones that I did last year. I will get on it as soon as I can. Please feel free to email or post any photo's of your brass. Everyone here would be interested to see the primers from the jacket that blew off of the bullet. What was the load? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 (edited) Cases can be identified from left to right. (A -E) E being the Winchester SR primer. The rest are Fed SR. Edited May 12, 2006 by .40AET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegirl Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Cases can be identified from left to right. (A -E)E being the Winchester SR primer. The rest are Fed SR. Very interesting, thanks! Just to clarify, the pic you posted is of "acceptable" primers, right? As you mentioned earlier, the edges of the primers are still round - although it looks like the WSR has flattened more than the others. And the firing pin strike is much more pronounced than mine, I assume due to the extended firing pin? (BTW, I have a Dawson Hyper Drive on the way...) I did manage to take a better pic of my brass: I'm inclined to believe that there may have been something else wrong with the load that blew the jacket off other than it just being too hot - bad crimp or bad bullet? It was 8.4gr of 3N37 at an OAL of 1.170, only .4 gr more than what I shot all last Saturday, and this actually happened on the 2nd round I fired. I'm not sure we looked for that particular piece of brass, we were too busy trying to figure out if my gun was still functioning. I'll post an update after I try out the new firing pin. I'm going back to 7.8 gr of N350, since that is what my gunsmith recommended to begin with, and start over from there. Thanks again, I really appreciate the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9supercomp Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 From your new picture that's what my primer look like, But after I install a Limcat extended firing pin all good now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Just to clarify, the pic you posted is of "acceptable" primers, right? Not exactly. A&B are bordering on too hot. They were around 175pf. D is what I'm currently using. E is a factory Winchester +p+ load that I don't like the looks of either. It was 8.4gr of 3N37 at an OAL of 1.170 Did you chronograph that load? I ran 7.8g of 3N37 at 1.175" oal last summer and made 169pf. 8.4 is also going to be pretty compressed with at 124g bullet. If your firing pin strikes are starting to be "less pronounced" then that is another sign that pressures are getting high. The pressure will push the divot back out as the primer flattens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Just to clarify, the pic you posted is of "acceptable" primers, right? Not exactly. A&B are bordering on too hot. They were around 175pf. D is what I'm currently using. Primers are a horrible way of getting a good gauge on pressure, but.... to me, all of those primers look fine - especially consider they're Federals A slight flattening of the shoulder is to be expected - it's a result of the primer backing out of the case slightly upon ignition, before the case is pushed back against the breechface. That causes the primer shoulder to just slightly flatten. The long firing pin will probably help thegirl's primer flow/shaving issue. The bullet jacket is interesting. It looks potentially like a defective bullet, to me - either that, or some kind of something wrong between the barrel and bullet. 8.4 of 3N37 at 9mm OAL is probably going to be awful stout - like a 180-185PF load. I used to run 7.9 of 3N37 w/ a 135 in 9x21 at 182PF. 8.4 would put a 125 in that same range, I believe. If I had to guess, a charge weight similar to your N350 load would work about right - 7.5-7.8 or so. You should really get these over a chrono to see what they're doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegirl Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 It's hard to tell from the pics, but are the primers on A and B bubbled up, that's why the strike is off center? Guess it's a good thing I'm asking about this... I ran 2 of the 8.4 loads through the chrono, they were at about 1450 - way too much. I've heard the goal for 9mm with a 125gr bullet is 170 pf, so that's what I'm working towards. I'll let you know how it goes this weekend. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 (edited) It's hard to tell from the pics, but are the primers on A and B bubbled up, that's why the strike is off center? Please ask any question that is on your mind. That's why everone is here. The barrel and the slide were not locking correctly. A little love from the gunsmith fixed that easily. I agree with Xre. By the time primers show substantial pressure signs, you are likely beyond where you want to be. Please be careful working up loads. Most of the popular powders can be found here. Start a little lower and work up the load in your gun. The sun was out and I shot new photos. Edited May 12, 2006 by .40AET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I ran 2 of the 8.4 loads through the chrono, they were at about 1450 - way too much. I've heard the goal for 9mm with a 125gr bullet is 170 pf, so that's what I'm working towards. You're in the zone we used to run at old Major - 180PF or so... In fact, 1450 was the target velocity with that bullet weight. Basically, it's 100 fps faster than you need with our current Major power level. Most folks target 170PF with any load/caliber (in the US - in IPSC, the power factors are different...), because it gives you some cushion at the chrono at a big match - I chrono'ed at 171-ish PF at Space City, for instance. I'll be at the next Waco match, if you want to bring some cases along, or check out what my .38 SuperComp load primers look like, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 my HS6 loads look like 40aet's loads, but primers arent the best gauge of pressure. IMR 7625 flattened the primers out more, but i was loading winchester small pistol primers when i loaded 7625. power pistol barely flattens pistol primers at major...it just seems to be really loud and the bright muzzle flash is visable during daylight hours. Ive also tried some SP2 loads but that powder is so scarce that makeing a load for that would be silly. Ive got 4 pounds of Ramshot silhouette coming, when i get it, ill post up some results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegirl Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 OK, I posted this in another thread, but thought I'd ask here too. Looks like the firing pin spring doesn't sit up as high on the Dawson firing pin as my stock one, so it won't compress enough for me to get the firing pin plate back on. I made sure (without the spring) that the new pin fits through the firing pin hole, so I think it is the spring. In another thread I found someone talking about cutting "a little" off the firing pin spring - anybody have an idea how much "a little" is, or if I should try something else before cutting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Do you have an extra spring, just in case?? Basically, trim a coil at a time until it fits and has a little bit of extra space. It should be able to move forward about another 50% from the room required to clear the firing pin stop. Otherwise, you might bind that spring each time you pull the trigger, which can lead to a broken spring or broken firing pin. You might also call Dawson, and see what spring they recommend for use - different FP springs will fit differently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 ISMI spring and the dawson Hyperdrive FP in my SV w/ interchangeable breechface. the spring didnt need trimming. Ill bring some loads with 7625, HS6 and Power pistol to waco if you want to try them. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegirl Posted May 13, 2006 Author Share Posted May 13, 2006 For today I put the old firing pin back in. Dawson hasn't answered me back yet about the spring, and I don't have a spare (yet). Thanks Harmon, I'd love to try them. Where do you get Power Pistol? I've seen 7625 and HS6 in Sportsman's Warehouse, but not Power Pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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