dlaroe Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 I'm very new at this so I'm trying to figure out what I see at "speed". The other weekend, I shot the Fredericksburg match, my first one outside, much better than I had been shooting. I distinctly remember not seeing my sights on target and breaking the shot. So, I was dry firing at my mug rack, procrastinating instead of doing the dishes in the sink. After a few times through, I started feeling a similar feeling as in that last match. Not really seeing the sights or targets just the transitions. What does this sound like? The stuff I'm not seeing seems to coincide with times I might be closing my eyes. Wow, could it be that simple? How can I check that? Dale A-55351 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 What does this sound like? Sounds like your not using the sight as they were intended to be used, for aiming and action initiation. Let the sight tell when to initiate the next action (shoot, transition, movement). Oh and try not to shoot while blinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Try not to tell us what you aren't seeing. "Look" to tell us what you are seeing. You really want to be using your vision for something...it's a great form of telling you what the heck is going on. You may not be looking at anything...really. JYou just don't want to glass over and not see. If you are using a target focus, well, that isn't always a bad thing. You might be focused on the target but still getting plenty of input from the gun...enough to tell you where it is at and such. I prefer to use the more precise feedback that I get from using the sight, even on some really close stuff. But, you should experiemnt and see what you need to see for where your shooting is at right now. Oh...something else... People often get to believing that they need to slow down in order to use their sights. That shouldn't be true. If you have to go slow to find and use your sight, that usually means that your technique needs tuning. With the proper grip and stance, you should be able to build your index such that your sights are "right there", not requiring you to hunt or wait on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 What does this sound like? Oh and try not to shoot while blinking Or blink while shooting? Seriously, a lot of use hold our breaths or lock our eyes open when we get "really rocking" and that is not actually a good thing. Obviously, it's better to have your eyes open when you are shooting...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 (edited) You MUST hold your breath while shooting. If you breathe in & out while squeezing the trigger, you will miss your target. And of course you HAVE TO breathe sometime, so your body will figure out when & where to take a breath! Edited March 18, 2006 by C.Keen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaroe Posted March 18, 2006 Author Share Posted March 18, 2006 Eyes open is best, got it... ;-) I think I mistated things a little though. I don't remembert seeing the sights misaligned and take the shot anyway. From the beep to my last shot, I can't remember being aware of much of anything. I noticed a little of the stuff that required the most attention for me not to totally mess things up. I remember the stuff I was worried about like reloading, entering shooting boxes, leaning around baricades and breaking 180. I wasn't expecting much from my shooting, I just did it, and I shot much better than I thought I could. The thing that kills me is I have no idea what I did and I don't believe I've shot enough to have all that shooting stuff be automatic. Something I didn't do or didn't realize I was doing got me shooting the C class scores that were going to be my goal this year to achieve. Fustrating. Thanks for the feedback folks. This is the best sport and the best forum, I'm really glad I found both. -D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I remember the stuff I was worried about like reloading, entering shooting boxes, leaning around baricades and breaking 180. I wasn't expecting much from my shooting, I just did it, and I shot much better than I thought I could. You would be suprised what your subconscious can do. The trick is letting it happen. Looking at the sights, is not the same as seeing them. Work on seeing well enough to call the shots. That means seeing as the hammer falls, not just when you start the trigger moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 If you see your front sight on every shot, it will go where you want it. I was told once by a really good high power guy to try to shoot halfway through your exhale. As you are exhaling, take a pause and squeeze. If you exhale all of your air, your body will start shaking (it wants O2) If you hold before you exhale anything, your eyes will start to tunnel. Try it.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 The stuff I'm not seeing seems to coincide with times I might be closing my eyes. Wow, could it be that simple? How can I check that?Dale A-55351 Most shooters blink. Hold a pencil out at arms length and quickly wiggle the eraser up and down. Notice how you can see it wiggling even if you are looking anywhere near it. You can still be aware of its wiggling motion even if you focus 25 yards beyond it. Do a "search entire post" search in Handgun Techniques Forum with the word "blinking" and you'll find some good reading. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Other than blinking, why don't we, okay, I see at the speed of light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierruiggi Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) Other than blinking, why don't we, okay, I see at the speed of light? Hhhhhmmmm.... I don't quite recognize where are you directing your question, but if you refer to what I think you're referring, then my answer is: Because of how our eyes (and brain) work. Edited March 24, 2006 by Pierruiggi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaroe Posted March 26, 2006 Author Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) I need to shoot more. Thinking about the responses, I might be sort of aware of my sights but seeing the targets, magwell, baricades and my feet. It would be better to see my sights at a spot on the targets and being aware of the magwell, baricades and my feet. Could the adrenaline/nervousness be blotting out the awareness (being a "now" thing) but not the seeing? This and this are cool. In slow fire practice I have yet to see the front sight lift or really come back just sort of "sproing" its not in the notch anymore. As I work on getting my grip consistant, its sproinging closer to the notch. I'm not even thinking about breathing. I am breathing and for right now that will have to be enough. My perception is breathing is about accuracy but maybe I'm wrong. I've been flipping and watching my pen to conciously catch it, ala David Letterman, in an attempt to increase what I can see. I'm most successful when I'm interested, but not "Trying". Wow, there is so much already here on the forum. Thanks for the replies even though you've all said similar things before to other people. Lovin' this, Dale Edited March 26, 2006 by dlaroe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaroe Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 Ok, I know it may be stupid to link in a link to a link just a few clicks away from here but this is exactly what I was looking for. -Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Be careful not to just jump on the bangwagon with the kind of vision that is being talked about in that last link. That vision is completely connected. The shooter is greatly aware of what is going on. That is the polar opposite of the shooter that "glasses over" and goes through the stage in a state of sleep walking. One way is full on knowing, the other way is full of wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 (edited) The stuff I'm not seeing seems to coincide with times I might be closing my eyes. Wow, could it be that simple? How can I check that? Dale A-55351 Most shooters blink. be I'd wager it is a hard-wired-in-the-brain protection mechanism to try to prevent injury to your eyes. Difficult to over-ride those. The stuff I'm not seeing seems to coincide with times I might be closing my eyes. Wow, could it be that simple? How can I check that? Dale A-55351 Most shooters blink. Hold a pencil out at arms length and quickly wiggle the eraser up and down. Notice how you can see it wiggling even if you are looking anywhere near it. You can still be aware of its wiggling motion even if you focus 25 yards beyond it. be It's also possible to shift "brain focus" between two things such as this: look at a spot on the wall 25 yards out and focus both eyes on it. Raise your hand in line with your left eye. You will still see the spot on the wall (through your right eye clearly) and a fuzzy picture of the back of your hand in your left eye which appears to be "transparent". Without changing focus point of your eyes, you can "shift perception focus" between the spot on the wall and your hand. If you do it right, your hand will seem to get "more solid" as you "brain" focus on it, but you will still be able to see the wall spot at the same time. Try it. This same technique can be used to shift brain focus between sights and target without shifting eye focus. Edited April 11, 2006 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaroe Posted April 13, 2006 Author Share Posted April 13, 2006 (edited) I've used a similar broad/soft visual focus while driving when something triggers the "heads up" feeling (deer/bad drivers etc.) or playing first person shooter video games. In those activities, its the odd movement, the out of the ordinary motion, that draws your attention. There is enough detail to make a judgement and react but not so much detail to slow you down or really remember. If I am understanding what you guys are saying, what I have described is _NOT_ what you are talking about. It helped to put my perception into words to contrast the differences. There seems to be more detail in your examples. Was that a progressive thing or was it an AH-HA! thing to remember every sight picture on a course of fire? The focus/vision thing, on the level that you guys are talking about, I can intelectualize about but am not yet able to gather the awareness during a match to put into use. The body/gun mechanics carry over to the match from dryfire. Is there a way to practice these mental things so they will carry over too? Brian, from your "Eliminate Blinking" from the GunTests link is great stuff. The muzzleflash silhouetted front sight is an eyeopener. That is something I can start to tackle now. Thanks, Dale Edited April 13, 2006 by dlaroe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaroe Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 This thread is proof that with enough shooting buzzwords in the title, you can get almost as many views as threads that piss people off. Now I know I didn't know what I was talking about, yet I know more than when I started. -D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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