cautery Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 No heat in my shop, so I had time to write up a couple of articles on a new project I've been working on and documenting some stuff I learned a while back. First article is on the Glock Trigger Pin Bushing I designed and am currently testing in my G-35. I am VERY pleased with how it's performing. All it took to develop was time, a couple of special tools, and a bunch of machine shop time. Done now... Installations are a snap. Tuning takes experience. Second article I wrote up because it relates to the new bushing. I wrote an article to document some old photos I took to illustrate tuning of the Slide Stop Lever. Be sure to let me know if you like the articles. If I know someone is reading them, I tend to write more. Y'all have a great evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txaggie Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Very nice articles and documentation. I really liked your article on the 550 clamp, very nice solution. Have you tested the clamp on a tool set for 9mm yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Looks good Clay. Nice detail. I don't think anybody has covered this before? At least, not in this manner. (I think there has been some plastic washers put in as spacers for lateral trigger play.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the duck of death Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 The 550 clamp may be what it takes to allay fears of inconsistency in reloading of rifle ammo... Nice article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 VERY NICELY DONE! I really enjoyed reading the article. It one, gave me a better understanding of the trigger mechanism and two, provided some solutions to problems that I have seen in my own trigger. At a recent match, Ralph Sotelo and I took a close look at my drop in kit. He explained a couple of points that I hadn't considered before but made a lot of sense. His explainations combined with your articles are making the Glock trigger puzzle easier to understand for me. To add to your written piece, Ralph explained the importance of centering the two pins within the frame itself when they are repositioned. He spoke of feeling a click when seating the lower of the front pins in a 3 pin glock as the SSL fit into the grove in the pin. I had never given it much thought before. I can see how it all adds up though. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) Sorry for the slow replies, y'all. Had to work 14 hours at my "real" job today. txaggie - Yeah, I really liked how the 550B clamp came out. I've actually made several revisions to it since I wrote that article. I've never tried it on a 9mm, but the intended effects of the clamp are not caliber specific. If I can ever get my butt in gear again on this, I am thinking about getting my new machinist (outfit that did the bushing for me) to do a short run of them. Flexmoney - Thanks! As far as I know, it's never been done. I tried the spacer deal, and simply wasn't hapy with the results. This has been sitting on my project folder for forever. Finally got them made a couple of months ago and got the custom reamers in from my toolmaker a few weeks ago. I really like how it's working on my pistol. I'm hoping to try it out on a couple of local matches and practice before the DoubleTap Championship gets here. Merlin Orr - Never thought about rifle ammo reloaders. Yep, with a clamp and a properly setup 550B, I think you could get results approaching single stage consistency... Better in some respects. Clay1 (Rick) - Thanks! I think Ralph and I could have a really cool conversation about the Glock trigger system if we were ever in the same place for a couple of hours. His safety plunger is a work of art. It took me a long time to figure out the intricacies of the Glock trigger system, and frankly, I learn something new everytime I sit, stare at, and think about how it all works together. Fortunately, it's a fairly simple system. I dig working on them. Gotta run check the rest of the board... TTYL Edited February 21, 2006 by cautery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 You know...I love this kind of stuff. The history of competition firearms is that nobody ever wants to like the "new thing". Look at the High-power shooters. they have always resisted going to the "new" service rifle. Then, as time goes by, people start to play around with what they have. and, they figure out ways to make little improvements. Heck, I remember dropping in on the HS2000/XD forum maybe 2 years ago. People there weren't saying good things about trigger jobs. I knew it wouldn't be long though. Now, grab an XD worked over by the right people and it's a thing of art. I am glad to see all the Glock people perfecting perfection. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Clay, read both and also read the Bullet jump article. To be honest, the first time I read the trigger pin article, some of it I didn't understand. After reading the slide stop lever article and looking at the very good photos, I re-read the trigger pin article and understood it completely. Very interesting. I would IMHO point out though, its difficult to compare the lateral play in a 1911 to a glock trigger, because the two mechanical means of execution are very different. With that said, I completely agree there should be a bushing in the trigger mated to the pin vs what is currently manufactured. How does this compare to what the Lightning Strike replacement trigger does? I haven't seen one up close in this area, but being one of the few non-polymer replacement triggers for Glock, I would think this might be a better platform for your concept. I was VERY interested in you article about bullet jump. Most of the real serious rifle reloaders/rifle comp shooters (otherwise know as He-Who-Worships-at-the-6mm PPC-Alter)I think call this "head spacing". I have always gauged the head spacing in my rifles before working up reloads, and attempt to take up as much of the jump as possible (but NEVER all of it, this will really jump the chamber pressures). The magazine is almost always the limiting factor. Unfortunately, most of the major manufacturers will be very hesitant to make a barrel that drastically limits the head spacing in fear of someone pushing the limits with a reload and kabooming the chamber. BUT, what I did get out of your atricle was there seems to be a lot of wiggle room between the liability set head spacing of the currently manufactured barrel and a barrel with the rifling .002 off of COAL. Once again, its the magazine that is really determining the COAL. I hope KKM read the results. Did you send the results to them on their custom barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 SA Friday - Yeah, as I said in the trigger pin article, there is more to come. I need to go back and illustrate the article with more photos. Frankly, I ripped that article off the top of my head in about 15 minutes. It would do well with some reorganization/cleanup et al. Yes, it is hard to compare a Glock to a 1911/2011, but I guess my main point is this... triggers are SUPPOSED to go fore and aft... ANY sideways motion is irrelevent to the intended function at best, and usually detracts from the quality of the process. I am a novice competitive shooter... And even I can feel the difference in the pull quality. I thought I was "thinking" the improvement... So I tore it down and put it back together several times switching from identically prepared trigger bars (one with and one without bushing). You can definitely feel the difference, and the difference is good! I have no idea how it would compare to the Aluminum Lightening Strike trigger... I could never bring myself to spend $100.00 on a trigger bar that I'd still have to do all my other mods on. If someone would send me one to do some non-destructive eval on, I'd happily analyze/compare them.... and to see if the mod could be applied... Aluminum on steel is a bad idea actually.... it really could use a bronze bushing. Actually, the polymer trigger is a great platform for the mod... I thought initially that the remaining polymer might be too weak... But, I cranked the heck out of one of my modded trigger bars to see if I could break it... it didn't. You'd REALLY have to TRY to break it. Bullet Jump - I've spent a LOT of time working on this over the last several years... And intend to spend some more. Bullet jump and head spacing are completely different things (at least in semi-auto cartridges). Head Spacing is the distance between the breech face and the base face of the cartridge when the cartridge is "head spaced" on the head spacing step in the chamber. Bullet jump is the distance the projectile travels between ignition and when it first contacts the beveled portions of the barrel lands. Bullet jump is controlled by seating depth, bullet profile, and lead/throat geometry. Head spacing is controlled via chamber depth to the head spacing step and the cartridge case length. KKM cut one barrel for me using my tool that I designed and made. Their name was not and is not on the barrel. In fact, it has my name engraved on it. Kevin was nice enough to make the proto for me for my testing since I had an identical KKM stock barrel to use as a control. I've since tested using some other manufacturers, but have decided that any futher development will likely only use either KKM or Barsto barrels. From now on, I will simply be getting short or unchambered barrels and cut the chambers myself with custom chambering tools manufactured to my chamber design specs. IF I ever make any of my barrel designs commercially available, they WON'T have a major manuafcturers name on them, and they will come with a 9 billin page long liability waiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The side-to-side play in the Glock trigger [every single one I've tried] is something that always bothered me. You're doing good stuff, Clay. Let me know if I can buy some of the trigger pin bushings from you. I wouldn't spend much time wondering if the Lightning Strike trigger works better or feels better. I'd say no & no to those questions based on trying a couple on other guys' guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 IMO the only nice thing about the LS trigger is the wider trigger safety and that isn't nearly worth $100. Cool stuff cautery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 Thanks y'all. I'll keep working on that article to make it better/more useful. And there are some cool things coming down road (as soon as I finish this Wireless PTP project I am working on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Cautery, I bet you could sell a few of those bushings and reamers around here .... Please ? Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 Travis... Stay tuned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You're right Clay, sorry bout that. I meant seating dept, not head spacing. If you change it out when you read my last, it will make sense (something I lost after my third kid...). Interesting about the aluminum and the steel thing. never thought about it, but that does sound right, aluminum doesn't self lubricate like brass. Soooo, when you going to start modifiying everyone's triggers????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Travis... Stay tuned... +1 Very nice article and glad to see you tackle the task. Keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Clay, I would certainly enjoy checking out your improvements on the glock trigger. That was very informative reading even for an ol' fireman/carpenter. I don't suppose you will have that system available to dry-fire at the Dbl Tap match will you? I would really like to check it out. My idea of precision is within 1/16" so I have no idea if I can tell the difference in the feel of a few thousandths. I would like to try, though. Mark Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Sounds great - I want to try it. Please.... -joker22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 Guys, I'm getting setup to make these available as soon as I can. I'm just wanting to make sure I have all the "i"'s dotted and "t"'s crossed, so that it'll all go smoothly. Brian will open my dealer forum when I'm ready to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Just let us know when and where. I would like to try the trigger feel before buying one. Clay, you going to be shooting Florida State Championship, Area 6, Prod Nats, Tennessee Section or Monster Match this year? I'd like to get with you then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 I will Kevin... Thusfar, I am scheduled for DoubleTap, Space City, Mississippi State, Area 4, Area 3, Area 2, Texas Limited, North Texas Sectional, and yes... I just confirmed with Cindy that I'll be shooting and ROing SAT/SUN at Area 6. I have one in my pistol, and by then, I should have some with me at the match... in whatever form the kit ends up available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted March 4, 2006 Author Share Posted March 4, 2006 Mark, Somehow I missed your post notification... I'm shooting with the ROs the weekend before the DTC match, but I'm sure I'll have my pistol in WF with me on match weekend. If Robert doesn't work me too hard, I'll try to work something out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Clay, Can I get a picture of the jig you use to hold the triggers in your drill press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Flex, thanks for bumping this. I had somehow missed this the first time around. Now I gotta have one. Hope Clay does something before I start destroying parts. I'm OK with my trigger as is, but would really like to take the slop out of it. I think his bushings could really step the Glock trigger up a notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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