DAA Lee 9mm Dies

[xjwalt666]

Does anyone use the Double Alpha Dies made by Lee? Right now I have an unmatched set of 9mm dies in my press. The resizing/decapping die seems to leave a step on the bottom of the cases sometimes which doesn't allow it to pass the case gage test. DAA claims these dies are made specifically for them by Lee and are held to tighter tolerances for a better loading experience. Just curious if its true of if its all hype. Or if I should just stick with the standard Lee 9mm dies when I order a new set. 

[Dr. Phil]

The Lee U die is the bomb! Tighter tolerances than "normal" sizing die.

That step is sometimes caused by the sizing die not properly (completely) set up. The shell plate should just touch the die bottom and cause the handle to slightly cam over.

YMMV but maybe worth looking into. There should be no ring on the casing, so it sounds like an adjustment problem.

[Miranda]

in amplifying dr.phil, I can state the lee u die needs to be just kissing the shellplate.

 

and once you get that done, If any cases have a flange above the extraction groove

that fails a case check...  throw that case away.

 

the U die is good.  and

I have always thought it needs a taper near the bottom.

 

I'll fix that when I start the miranda-die-tool-shop

 

mirande

 

[xjwalt666]

23 hours ago, Dr. Phil said:

The Lee U die is the bomb! Tighter tolerances than "normal" sizing die.

That step is sometimes caused by the sizing die not properly (completely) set up. The shell plate should just touch the die bottom and cause the handle to slightly cam over.

YMMV but maybe worth looking into. There should be no ring on the casing, so it sounds like an adjustment problem.

I have tried the U die. I actually have one on my bench but its extremely tight and makes the press very hard to operate. I don't use any kind of case lube which may be the issue but I have never needed to lube with carbide dies. I was curious if the DAA set was actually worth the $109. 

21 hours ago, Miranda said:

in amplifying dr.phil, I can state the lee u die needs to be just kissing the shellplate.

 

and once you get that done, If any cases have a flange above the extraction groove

that fails a case check...  throw that case away.

 

the U die is good.  and

I have always thought it needs a taper near the bottom.

 

I'll fix that when I start the miranda-die-tool-shop

 

mirande

 

I have the die screwed down til it touched the shellplate just like I always do. Its an old rcbs die that probably has 100k loaded with it. I just want to replace the whole set. The seat die and crimp die are both Dillon and they don't give me any issues. 

[Squirrel45]

I think you tried the mighty armory die. However it does work well with taking the coke bottle out. Iv found that a good amount of lanolin & alcohol is needed. Or just use Dillon spray, the one shot wasn't enough for me. 

[Jim Watson]

 

1 hour ago, xjwalt666 said:

I have tried the U die. I actually have one on my bench but its extremely tight and makes the press very hard to operate. I don't use any kind of case lube which may be the issue but I have never needed to lube with carbide dies. I was curious if the DAA set was actually worth the $109. 

I have the die screwed down til it touched the shellplate just like I always do. Its an old rcbs die that probably has 100k loaded with it. I just want to replace the whole set. The seat die and crimp die are both Dillon and they don't give me any issues. 

 

 

What bullets?

I use the Lee "U" die for jacketed or plated 115 gr 9mm.  It gives a pronounced waist which keeps short slick bullets from setting back.  It doesn't leave a step, but any press mounted die will leave an unsized band the depth of the shell plate plus the depth of the die mouth taper.  Old RCBS dies from before progressives were common seem to have less mouth taper than most.   

Brass is spray lubed lightly enough to not have to be tumbled again.

 

My more usual 124 gr coated get enough bullet pull with the standard Dillon sizing die.

 

Why change dies that work?  Get a different sizing die if you think it will help.  

 

 

 

[4n2t0]

2 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

I use the Lee "U" die for jacketed or plated 115 gr 9mm.  It gives a pronounced waist which keeps short slick bullets from setting back.  It doesn't leave a step, but any press mounted die will leave an unsized band the depth of the shell plate plus the depth of the die mouth taper. 

 

This.

 

If I had to do it all over again, I would only buy Lee dies. I have/had them all, and I do really like some of them (Dillon), but you just can't beat the value Lee dies provide. They're cheap and they work. A lot of people like the u die, and for good reason, but I would recommend using a little lube. I like One Shot. I used to load without lube, but everything is much smoother and takes much less effort when you load lightly lubed cases.

[Miranda]

in the hope it makes you feel better...

in my reloading die buys I have I think three sets for 9mm.

and a couple of 38 expander/funnel dies.

 

I would also state I am a frugal/value based buyer.

If I think I can get it cheaper or survive without, I will.

 

So If you decide you need more optional dies

I can see you may like mix 'n' match dies in your press.

 

the RCBS and Lee seating dies are different with different bullets.

I don't see much difference past the above.

 

the U-die is a hard decision and the biggest charm for me

is how far down the case it sizes.

 

The expander you choose makes a great difference

when it comes to lead bullets. This includes coated and plated.

A 9mm expander/funnel will swage lead bullets.  

Measure bullet base diameter and seat bullet.

Then extract bullet and measure that base again.

my calipers said .3545 if one trusts the dial caliper pointing at a halfway

between .354 and .355. 

If your barrel is not leading or accuracy does not suffer, and the bullets don't fall out,

stick to your expander.

the shaving is a way to avoid swaging, and the base diameter will get a bit smaller

 

victor

 

 

 

 

[TONY BARONE]

The EGW U-Die is modified by EGW to size the case lower to prevent case bulge.

[xjwalt666]

I think I need to explain a little further my issue. I'm going to include a photo of the problem I'm having with the RCBS die. The threads of the die are worn out and the die moves in the toolhead from what I can tell. The step isn't from not resizing completely or right below the bullet, it is due to the die moving and leaving a visible step at the rim. It doesn't happen all the time but I probably get 5 out of 100 that do it and they don't chamber when it occurs. Like I said I have a U-die but didn't like the resistance it had when running the press. I'm probably going to just order the standard 4 die Lee set for $60 or however much they are now and be done with it. 

Edited July 6 by xjwalt666

[xjwalt666]

On 7/5/2024 at 3:18 PM, Jim Watson said:

 

 

 

What bullets?

I use the Lee "U" die for jacketed or plated 115 gr 9mm.  It gives a pronounced waist which keeps short slick bullets from setting back.  It doesn't leave a step, but any press mounted die will leave an unsized band the depth of the shell plate plus the depth of the die mouth taper.  Old RCBS dies from before progressives were common seem to have less mouth taper than most.   

Brass is spray lubed lightly enough to not have to be tumbled again.

 

My more usual 124 gr coated get enough bullet pull with the standard Dillon sizing die.

 

Why change dies that work?  Get a different sizing die if you think it will help.  

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying. I posted a pic above to further show my problem. Maybe that is the issue with the sizing die, that it is the older one meant for a single stage. I have set and reset this die more times than I can count. Bringing it down onto a case and then tighten the ring so it lines up correctly and everything. I never had this Issue with Lee or Dillon sizing dies. 

[Miranda]

14 minutes ago, xjwalt666 said:

I think I need to explain a little further my issue. I'm going to include a photo of the problem I'm having with the RCBS die. The threads of the die are worn out and the die moves in the toolhead from what I can tell. The step isn't from not resizing completely or right below the bullet, it is due to the die moving and leaving a visible step at the rim. It doesn't happen all the time but I probably get 5 out of 100 that do it and they don't chamber when it occurs. Like I said I have a U-die but didn't like the resistance it had when running the press. I'm probably going to just order the standard 4 die Lee set for $60 or however much they are now and be done with it. 

 

 

ok... oh aint that ugly?

throw that case away...

 

[4n2t0]

50 minutes ago, xjwalt666 said:

The threads of the die are worn out and the die moves in the toolhead from what I can tell. 

 

That makes sense given the picture you posted. When the die comes down at an angle, it sizes the case so that one side of the wall gets pressed up against the web, allowing it to be seen from the outside. Threads on dies are pretty robust, so just make sure it isn't your toolhead threads that are worn out before purchasing new dies.

 

Edited July 6 by 4n2t0

[xjwalt666]

33 minutes ago, Miranda said:

 

 

ok... oh aint that ugly?

throw that case away...

 

Yea...going to pull the bullet and deprime and toss it. 

[xjwalt666]

5 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

That makes sense given the picture you posted. When the die comes down on an angle it in sizing the case so that one side of the wall gets pressed up against the web allowing it to be seen from the outside. Threads on dies are pretty robust so just make sure it isn't your toolhead threads that are worn out before purchasing new dies.

 

That's a good idea. I didn't think to check the threads of the toolhead. Thanks for the thought on that. I will definitely check that first. 

[4n2t0]

Honestly, if it is the threads on the die it's probably cheaper to use the u die you have and buy some One Shot. Once you start using lube you'll never go back (that's what she said, lol).

Edited July 6 by 4n2t0

[4n2t0]

Also, one last thing (sorry, I'm rambling...). Is it only occurring with one specific headstamp? Could the rim thickness be stopping the case from fully entering the shellplate? Is the shellplate clean and free of brass buildup? Finally, I would run another sizing die temporarily to see if you can duplicate the problem.

 

I'm just trying to help you troubleshoot some possibilities before you drop hard earned cash on a new die set.

[Jim Watson]

On 7/5/2024 at 2:18 PM, Jim Watson said:

Old RCBS dies from before progressives were common seem to have less mouth taper than most.   

 

Not only that, the face of the die is completely flat and smooth, there is a sharp corner at the very mouth of that short taper.  Easy to see a little misalignment throwing up a "belt."  I have seen it with other brands, but very rarely, usually a burr on the rim or dirt in the shell holder causing a good bit of misalignment.  

 

Load some with a lot of care aligning the case with the die, feel the case enter the die... without punching your finger.  It won't be fast but it will help identify the problem.

[xjwalt666]

20 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

Honestly, if it is the threads on the die it's probably cheaper to use the u die you have and buy some One Shot. Once you start using lube you'll never go back (that's what she said, lol).

I may just have to try the lube with the U die. I've never felt the need for case lube with the dies that I've used in the past which have been mostly Lee. 

20 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

Also, one last thing (sorry, I'm rambling...). Is it only occurring with one specific headstamp? Could the rim thickness be stopping the case from fully entering the shellplate? Is the shellplate clean and free of brass buildup? Finally, I would run another sizing die temporarily to see if you can duplicate the problem.

 

I'm just trying to help you troubleshoot some possibilities before you drop hard earned cash on a new die set.

It doesn't happen just with one headstamp. I thought that too and checked as it occurs and it has been random. RP, Federal, Blazer, it happens when it wants too. I thought the shellplate was maybe gummed up. I took it apart and got in there with a pick and small brush and cleaned it out really well and it still happens.  

2 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

 

Not only that, the face of the die is completely flat and smooth, there is a sharp corner at the very mouth of that short taper.  Easy to see a little misalignment throwing up a "belt."  I have seen it with other brands, but very rarely, usually a burr on the rim or dirt in the shell holder causing a good bit of misalignment.  

 

Load some with a lot of care aligning the case with the die, feel the case enter the die... without punching your finger.  It won't be fast but it will help identify the problem.

I will give this a shot as well.  I might bring the die to work with me this week and put it in a machine and add a little more taper to the mouth of the die. I work in a grinding shop and do a lot with carbide fgrinding so I know i have a wheel that will work for it. 

[Miranda]

been thinking some on this thread.

 

the people who design and make reloading dies have a lot of experience
at making good tools.

I used a dowel to spin 3000 grit sandpaper in my sizing die.
I also polished the mouth, mostly I aimed at the end of the radius

 

polishing dies helps.  a lot.

 

Taking off some of the end of the die will let the die size further down
and  also makes it easy to crush a case that was off center a little.

I guessed the mouth raduis is about 1/16 of an inch.

needing to size a case that far down implies the case is getting a lot of pressure
or a loose chamber.  both cause fatigue and hardening of the case which leads to a
case cracking problem.  
the crack may show up after sizing and the die is not the cause.

 

the polish will make the cases shiny.

 

miranda

[xjwalt666]

52 minutes ago, Miranda said:

been thinking some on this thread.

 

the people who design and make reloading dies have a lot of experience
at making good tools.

I used a dowel to spin 3000 grit sandpaper in my sizing die.
I also polished the mouth, mostly I aimed at the end of the radius

 

polishing dies helps.  a lot.

 

Taking off some of the end of the die will let the die size further down
and  also makes it easy to crush a case that was off center a little.

I guessed the mouth raduis is about 1/16 of an inch.

needing to size a case that far down implies the case is getting a lot of pressure
or a loose chamber.  both cause fatigue and hardening of the case which leads to a
case cracking problem.  
the crack may show up after sizing and the die is not the cause.

 

the polish will make the cases shiny.

 

miranda

I wasn't planning to take some off the end of the die just put a little bigger radius/taper at the mouth of the die. I'm going to compare it to the U die and see if there is enough of a difference to bother modifying it or not. 

[Miranda]

hmmmm...

things I've tried?

trying to mark ideas that may not work as expected...

 

to try to state directly,  from what I can tell, a sizing is too small in diameter

at the opening for 9mm case.  That is, they bite into new brass at the base.

the mouth needs only a little opening to lessen that bite.

 

I did shave by a grinding attachment, about .030 off the bottom a lee 9mm sizing die.

a bit later the radius was restored...think of it as a heads-up that sometimes a little change

will have unexpected results.

 

miranda

 

[xjwalt666]

16 hours ago, Miranda said:

hmmmm...

things I've tried?

trying to mark ideas that may not work as expected...

 

to try to state directly,  from what I can tell, a sizing is too small in diameter

at the opening for 9mm case.  That is, they bite into new brass at the base.

the mouth needs only a little opening to lessen that bite.

 

I did shave by a grinding attachment, about .030 off the bottom a lee 9mm sizing die.

a bit later the radius was restored...think of it as a heads-up that sometimes a little change

will have unexpected results.

 

miranda

 

I totally understand what you’re saying here. I think I’m going to do what was mentioned first. Check the threads on the tool head and see how they look and maybe try swapping tool heads with a spare. And if it continues maybe just try the U die again with some case lube.