Chillywig Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) I put in this guide rod because I thought the plug looked cool. https://egwguns.com/springfield-prodigy-4-25-guide-rod-kit Comes with 12lb flat wire spring which appears to be the lightest. Anyone try a standard wire spring on this skinny recoil rod? Or get the 12lb flat wire spring and cut off some coils? My gun feels over sprung and think driving 2nd shots low Edited March 26 by Chillywig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewM Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Yes, it should fit fine, here is a picture of a Wolff variable over the same Guide Rod. The 5" is tighter, but also will fit a Wolff spring, but the spring barely fits over the guide rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) I use ISMI 11 pound Glock 17 springs and cut off a coil or two ( I had several laying around). They look very similar to what the EGW guide rod comes with. My gun is also a 4.25 and it also felt oversprung with the EGW flat wire 12. Edited March 26 by deerslayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillywig Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 (edited) I have some full size wolff springs on hand so tried it out. Using this 7lb spring the plug is about a 1/4" from allowing full travel. The flat wire spring fully compresses allowing the plug to touch the guide rod stop. With the Wolff spring the slide does go back far enough to pick a round up out of the mag. But I would assume allowing the Wolff spring to 100% fully compress and smash onto itself is not going to last very long Edited March 27 by Chillywig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewM Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 When I have a few I'll see what a commander spring looks like in the EGW guide rod, a spring for a 5" gun is going to be a problem in a lot of cases regardless of this specific EGW setup, my commander springs are about an inch'ish shorter than govt springs - and with that comes with less coils. Wolff does make commander springs down to 7lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtuns Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 At about 5 minutes talks about trimming your spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewM Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) I had a few minutes to do a comparison of some springs. I only had 10lb springs in commander and govt in the same style (variable) to compare...and I threw one normal spring at govt length as another data point (in 11lb). You can see the variable rates are a little shorter. And the 5" vs 4.25" you can see how the windings are different - so a 5" spring in a 4.25", especially if you are space limited may not work. The 'stock' 12lb EGW spring has likely taken a 'set' already as it probably has 400-500rnds through it by this point. Cutting springs is fine, but one should invest in a method to measure the spring rate to make sure you aren't getting some wild number - cutting a spring makes it heavier - not lighter. The 10lb spring had no problem with the EGW guide rod, the plug hit the slide stop no problem. Wolff does go down to a 7lb commander length spring. Edited March 28 by DrewM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Thought of something that might be of interest.......... Several years ago while visiting Dawson Precision with a 2019 Staccato P (4.15"), I actually got to meet Dave and have a discussion about adjustable sights and his new Tool-Less Guide Rod made specifically for this first edition "P". Ended up buying the guide rod and he sent me a 3 pack of these recoil springs to test with the new guide rod: https://dawsonprecision.com/recoil-springs-for-dp-4-15-tool-less-guide-rod-9mm-by-dawson-precision/ They worked perfectly and offered enough difference in spring rate to use with any ammo I was loading!! Would these springs be an option for the OPs needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillywig Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 I ordered the Dawson springs to try Quote - cutting a spring makes it heavier - not lighter. Still not sure how to interpret this? You mean variable springs? Or less somehow equals more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Chillywig said: I ordered the Dawson springs to try Still not sure how to interpret this? You mean variable springs? Or less somehow equals more? It is somewhat counterintuitive but cutting coils off of a spring increases the spring rate. Google "cutting coils off of spring" or some such search string; they'll explain it a lot better than I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewM Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 8 hours ago, Chillywig said: I ordered the Dawson springs to try Still not sure how to interpret this? You mean variable springs? Or less somehow equals more? As DDC said, it seems backwards, but cutting coils off increases spring rate. Even on a variable rate spring. Take a 10lb spring - cut a couple of coils off and it may become an 11lb spring...not a 9lb spring. If you get to the point where you are really tuning your gun to that degree, it pays to have a way to measure spring rate, even so you can confirm when your springs are good/bad, you can verify how the spring rate changes over time, etc. They aren't expensive, and even relatively easy to make yourself if you are so inclined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Clipping the spring increases the spring rate but it reduces the amount of compression, so the spring load is less. Else how could pre-Wolff shooters adjust their gun for midrange target loads by clipping? I have a couple of odd guns that required clipping springs to fit the space. Do not shoot with the spring compressing solid. It can punch the bushing right out of a bushing gun, I don't know if it would break a flanged plug on a bull barrel and I don't want to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 10 hours ago, Chillywig said: I ordered the Dawson springs to try Still not sure how to interpret this? You mean variable springs? Or less somehow equals more? This older posting may shed some insight.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewM Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Some of the stuff about springs here, that thread, the general internet is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. I'll start with the caveat that a lot of us (myself included) can get lost in the weeds on things that don't really matter. A 1911/2011-style gun will work with a HUGE range of spring rates. A 5" 9mm can work fine with a 7lb spring or a 15lb recoil spring and likely even higher (technically it will work fine once with no spring). So there is a lot of margin to work with here. Also, we can't dismiss the role the mainspring has, the profile of the FP Stop, the profile of the hammer, the hole where the strut mounts on the hammer, the curve of the strut, etc (some of that means so little I'll bet dollars to donuts people can't tell a difference in a blind test) - but it all effects how the slide moves back and the speed it will do so. The reality is that cutting a few coils off of most recoil springs is going to have a fairly minor impact on spring rate (at least for 4.25 to 5" 1911 style guns) - I just threw some guess-timate type numbers into a spring calculator, then "cut" a good 1/4" off the spring and the spring rate changed by less than 10%...sounds dramatic, but your 10lb spring is now a 10.9lb spring - that's probably within the margin of error and wear on the spring. Then just to dive into the completely silly nitty-gritty of it all, and just in case folks aren't completely aware - spring rate is the amount of force to compress a spring a certain distance (can be rated in lb/in - lb/ft - n/mm -etc) - notice how nobody advertises the distance part with recoil springs (so is it 10lbs/in 10lb/ft 10lb/mm..). Now a variable rate spring will change that as it will have a curve on spring rate that goes from lower weight to the rated weight - if this were really important there would be a published chart showing the rate - or at least a starting weight and an end weight. Pre-load does not change spring rate - compress the spring by 25% - it still takes the same force to compress the next inch/mm of travel as it does uncompressed. Total spring load remains the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillywig Posted Monday at 01:36 AM Author Share Posted Monday at 01:36 AM This may be a bit pointless but I wanted to try to compare the factory spring to the Dawson spring set. https://dawsonprecision.com/recoil-springs-for-dp-4-15-tool-less-guide-rod-9mm-by-dawson-precision/ I used a trigger pull gauge to see how much force it took for the slide to begin to unlock. I had the hammer cocked so this is just how much force to move the side the first 1/16th of an inch Spring Factory 10lbs DP orange 7lbs DP green 6.5lbs DP yellow 4.5lbs The lightest of course "feels" best just racking the gun. Guess I need to get out and shoot some double taps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillywig Posted yesterday at 01:29 AM Author Share Posted yesterday at 01:29 AM I made it to the range yesterday to do some spring testing. I'd shoot a pair then past and label where shots 1 and 2 landed. Probably should have moved the target further away but the green spring had the tightest pairs. (minus the one where I flinched and threw a D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillywig Posted yesterday at 02:50 PM Author Share Posted yesterday at 02:50 PM Black = factory spring Orange = DP orange spring Green = DP green spring Blue = DP yellow spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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